Let's not starting pointing fingers at people. We dont know who did it.

yea but there is so much evidence! and we can at least narrow the suspect down.

i think all the evidence is a car with instructions on how to fly a plane written in arabic. there are tons of terrorists group who speak arabic. (i think there may be more evidence? like some people from laden's group called that morning or something???)

Just 3 weeks ago, Bin Laden made a statement that he was planning something of an unprecedented scale against America. For me, that's evidence enough.

However, even IF he wasn't involved in THIS, he was involved in numerous other attacks on US interests (embassies, for example). He is still worth tracking down and eliminating (his troops swiftly, him in the most painful way possible, despite the Constitution). I hope Bin Laden burns in hell for eternity.

Just because they find an Arabic flight deck manual doesn't mean an Arab did it. Someone else who wanted to blame it on the Arabs could have intentionally left an Arab manual to put people onto the wrong track.

Even IF Ben Laden is not involved in this attack, he DID say that he fully supported it. Even IF he is not involved THIS TIME, he has been involved other times. He certainly is not as innocent as those killed in the attack.

Click the link to see my take on everything. And, if you've never visited my website before, to see what it would normally look like, visit http://ikevtiva.com/83.htm

Amen

Wow, what a site! Pretty scary. If there was a sentence in the Bible that said Christians should protect their believe at any cost, you would've been one of those freaks flying a airplane through the WTC. I know there isn't but I hope you got my point. Don't you think you overreact a little. This isn't the so much feared apocalypse.
By the way, (for those who read the site) it wasn't your God who flew those airplanes. It was their God.

hear hear. just because three financial trade buildings were completely destroyed by aleged terrorists doesn't mean it was "God's" final act. it doesn't mean that everyone has to convert to christianity before the world explodes... all it means is that some crazy Islamic(?) guys really hate the U.S.; and who could blame them? remember the Gulf War? i think it is time to reconsider our position in the Middle East and what we're doing over there. either leave, or bomb Iraq :) j/k... and by the way, i heard from a friend that it is against Islamic law to commit suicide. one automatically goes to Hell... is this true?

Well if you want to know what I believe, if a person does not believe that Jesus is the son of God and that he died for us, then that person is already lost and going to hell. The good news is that anyone can be saved from that any time they want. No one "has to convert to Christianity" if they don't want to though. The fundamental difference is that according to Christianity, that's all one has to do to be saved. With these other religions, things start getting more compounded. You have to earn your way to heaven (that might even include terrorist attacks in some cases), and even then you might not make it.

So you believe that someone who's very helpful and kind to anybody else, but does not believe in your christian God, is evil and should no doubt go to hell?

It's not a matter of being good or evil. And it's not a matter of believing in God - even the Devil BELIEVES in God. It's a matter of accepting Christ as the savior of the world. If you don't do this, it doesn't make you evil, but it also denies you the blessings God gives to his people. Anyone from any religion can be a follower of Christ. You don't have to abandon your beliefs, as long as you don't blaspheme God.

Hell is reserved not only for the evil, but for those who are apathetic towards Christ.

So a very kind person (take a Buddhist for instance) who doesn't really care about your God or Christ, goes to hell for eternity and has to suffer the greatest pains. But a christian who commits a sins once in a while and then easily asks forgiveness, goes to heaven. Doesn't really have much logic, does it?

Or does being kind automatically makes you a follower of Christ?

Really, the Bible's quite vague on this, probably due to the fact that it's a manual of sorts for believers as opposed to an instruction book for non-Christians. I assume that someone who's been kind but hadn't had a chance to know anything about Jesus and Christianity (as opposed to someone who knew about it, but didn't give a damn/rejected it) is rewarded with whatever there is to be rewarded with, and Christians who went through the motions but weren't exactly Mother Teresas are punished. Then again, this isn't an official papal bull or anything, so take it with a grain of salt.

-- Nick

The Bible is hardly vague about this, and what you "assume" is rather backwards. We are repeatedly told that Christ is the only way to salvation. As just a starter, take a look at Romans 1-2, especially 1:16-18 and 2:14-15. Paul says that God will judge the Gentiles who did not have the written word on the basis of their sins against the natural knowledge of God, the natural knowledge of the law, and their own conscience. These sins will condemn them and leave them "without excuse."

The above claim that this isn't logical is exactly right. Since none are perfect, all would suffer in Hell excepting that Christ was perfect in our place. This is God's grace and defies understanding. Bible-based Christianity stands out among religions because it deals not with what we can do for God but what God did for us. As you point out, no human logic would think of this, and it continues to be called foolish by those who don't believe. Presuming that there is a God, I don't find it at all unreasonable to think that His wisdom is far greater than mine or any human's... See also Romans 11:33-36

I can't possibly say everything here without taking a huge amount of space. Check out the "(Web Page)" link to read answers to more than 2500 questions that have been asked, or ask one of your own. The section on salvation/justification might be especially helpful.

<<Bible-based Christianity stands out among religions because it deals not with what we can do for God but what God did for us.>>

I personally believe that neither of the above are really important (IMHO), and if God could talk to us, he would ask us to do our best for our fellow creatures, because that is what he is really interested in.

God does talk to us in the Bible, and he does say to love your neighbor and help them. So what is your point? Are you saying that Christians don't consider what is best for others?

Based on the sentence he replied to, I think he wanted to say, that one should not think christianity is better, because all believes say more or less the same. "Love others and other things." I think he wanted to point out that this is the only thing God is truly interested in. And I agree with him.

BTW: The US is based on God and christianity. Everybody agrees with this?
Then why has it fought so many wars, killed so many innocent people (e.g. Hiroshima)? Christ loved his enemies. Or is US christianity hypocritical?

The US was founded on God and Christianity, but it has fallen away. We haven't had many Christian leaders lately. Agreed, there was probably a better alternative to A-Bombing Japan, but the Bible isn't against war in general. Christ loved his enemies, but that wasn't in circumstances like these when action in necessary.

The US was founded on God, but not Christianity. Most of the founding fathers were Deists, meaning they believed in God but not the miracles described in the Bible.

One quick question. If you don't believe that God can talk to us, how do you know what he wants us to do?

Sorry to break off this discussion, but I really don't want to get into this.

Too late.

Those are reasonable questions. First you must understand that everyone (Christian or not) has sinned and fallen short of God's glory. It is not always easy to ask forgiveness (how many people honestly like admitting that they're wrong?). Satan is busy accusing us day and night for our sins. The penalty for sin is death, and the only reason we are saved from judgment is that Jesus took it for us. He was the only one capable of it, because he was the only person who lived a perfect life, without sin. Being kind does not make you saved, because no one can be saved by works, but only through faith. The Bible is not vague on this at all:

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." - John 3:16-21

If a Buddhist decided to believe in Christ, with all his heart and soul, he would be able to go to heaven.

I took a Buddhist as example, because that allows for some reasonable questions.

You say a Buddhist would be 'saved' if he accepted Christ in his life, in his way of living. The problem however is, that a Buddhist doesn't really care about being 'saved'. He believes in reincarnation and after many cycles of birth, living and death, he can enter Nirvana, what you can compare to heaven, but actually not. The question is then: who's right?

For me the answer is simple. No one is right. Life is just that, life. The Bible, the Koran, Buddha's Four Truths and many other things are guide books which explain how one could live to reach a common sense of well-being.
They tell stories about terrible things happening to people who didn't do right. If you place those books in the time they were written down, then that is easy understandable. People weren't that well-educated as they are now. The holy scripts and their belief were meant to help them stay civilized.
You see, these days I think you don't need to take them litteraly. They are no doubt still interesting books, and I take all, Christ, a Muslim, Buddha and others as example, because they all have good points. It's not one being good and the others being wrong. All believes have a common goal: it's about people having respect for others and other things.

Throughout history people have argued many times about what belief was right, sometimes with hard fights. I say none is truly rigth. It's just about a way of living, which, in general, is for all the same whether you are a muslim, a buddhist or a christian.

What are your point of views on this?

You made some very good points. I agree that the holy books are intended as a guide for people, so that they lead a good life, and are not meant to be taken literally.

Hell wouldn't necessarily be a lake of fire. People misinterpret this all the time. The book of Revelations speaks of Antichrist, his false prophet, and the Devil burning in a lake of fire. However, the people who go to Hell don't face the same fate. The entire concept of Hell is that people who go there will be utterly separated from God, which is supposed to be the worst punishment a human can face. Yes, worse than burning in hellfire for all eternity. Because when we're on earth, God listens to us and helps us, even if we can't see him. In Hell, he'd just ignore us and let us suffer. Forever.

Indeed. A few comments though. The reason that Christains do NOT go on suicide missions like this and these others DID, is that they don’t have any hope in their religion. They think they are saved by works, and will be rewarded for this senseless loss of life. Christains were not saved by works, but by mercy. I don’t know how they could serve a god that condones murder. In any case, God did not fly the airplanes. “When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives full birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.”

Please read the first two pages. The K'oran does NOT promote homicide. This is the result of extremists who aren't really Muslims according to the laws of that religion.

Please forgive me if I implied that, because I didn’t mean to. I would hope that no one would worship a god that promotes murder. I only meant that _some_ were (and may still be) diluted into thinking that suicide attacks against civilians are somehow going to get them into heaven. I hope that these people come to realize that they're wrong.

dude, I'm a Christian too, but I still say your site is completely off the wall... Almost extreme as the terrorists, just in the other direction

According to the Bible the "last days" cover the entire New Testament period from Pentecost until Jesus returns on Judgment Day. For example, St. Peter said that the events of Pentecost were a fulfillment of a prophecy about the last times (Acts 2:16-17). St. John told his readers that they were in the last hour of the world's existence (1 John 2:18).

On the Tuesday of Holy Week Jesus spoke of the last times and the signs of his coming. He told of wars and rumors of wars, persecutions, the coming of false prophets and false Christs, famines and earthquakes (Matthew 24:1-25). These signs are not intended to tell us when he will return, but are to remind us to be ready for his return at all times. No one knows when that day will be.

Jesus Christ dying and raising from the dead gives ME access to God directly in prayer. You do not need to go to a priest or anyone else to have your sins forgiven. Jesus took our sins when he died and we only need to accept his gift.
I do agree with you on th PRAY PRAY PRAY part. 100%

I'm not a Catholic, and I don't agree with everything you said, nor do I believe in everything you do. But at this point, that doesn't really matter. It is time for us all to come together as Christians and pray for the future of our country. America is in a time of great need.

"It is time for us all to come together as Christians and pray for the future of our country."

Not necessarily as Christians, but as citizens of the United States of America, and as citizens of the world to punish the perpetrators for this horrible tragedy. No matter which God you believe in, or don't believe in (as in my case); no matter what country you are from, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that these terrorist "acts of war" cannot go unpunished.

<<as citizens of the world>>

That, in my opinion, is very important. Nationalism can be good in the beginning, but if carried on for too long, it can cause more problems than good. I, for one, would like the Allies to eliminate every terrorist group, not only Bin Laden's network, for the safety of other countries.

" << as citizens of the world >>

That, in my opinion, is very important. "


'The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.' Revalation 13:3b (NIV)

This verse is taken rather out of context, but compare it to what Lalu said. Pretty creepy, eh?

Beast? What beast?

Adversary. Destroyer of Kings. Angel of the Bottomless Pit. Great Beast that is called Dragon. Prince of This World. Father of Lies. Spawn of Satan. The Lord of Darnkess.

i.e. Antichrist.

I'll agree with you on this, only adding that I find it much easier to deal with things like this because of my faith in God. Life's a little easier to live when you can lay your problems at the feet of someone much stronger than you without them getting angry.