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The High Price of Freedom
Posted by Henrik on 12 September 2001, 17:12 GMT

I doubt that there could be anyone who is not all too aware of the terrible tragedy that occurred yesterday in the United States. We live in a world that is now vastly different from what it was only a day ago.

Our community represents people from across the world. Of all our members, the majority are Americans. Almost certainly, someone amongst our number has lost someone they knew, someone they loved... it is entirely conceivable that a member of our community was among those who died. I do not know. In all likelihood, we will never know. But we do not need to know to show our compassion towards the victims of these terrible acts of terror. Those who died were fellow human beings, and that is enough.

I speak for the entire staff when I say that our thoughts are with you all at this time.

 


The comments below are written by ticalc.org visitors. Their views are not necessarily those of ticalc.org, and ticalc.org takes no responsibility for their content.


Re: The High Price of Freedom
Hugo Quadrado  Account Info

How! that is the only thing I ask. How it is possible some on to do one thing like that.
I dont have words, my heard is crying...
God Bless American and the persons tha the world lost.

     16 September 2001, 02:07 GMT

United we stand
n1zdy  Account Info

Well I just briefly scanned through all of the comments and just wanted to add my thoughts.
First of all my heart goes out to all of the victims and affected families and friends of these attacks. I go to a school w/ nearly 4000 students. Their is not one class that I have without at least one person affected.

WE SHOULD NOT RESORT TO USING NUCLEAR WEAPONS IN RETALIATION!!! I can't stress this enough. We are a world where almost every country has nuclear weapons. If we shoot one then we have all there allies shooting them back at us then we will shoot more at them and so will our allies. BY SHOOTING ONE WE KILL US ALL!!! This is one of my major thoughts.
I don't see why we shouldn't go to war w/ Afghanistan. I agree that the killing of innocent civilians is wrong. The government however should be destroyed. By hiding Osama Bin Laden they are just as responsible for this attack as the people who did it.
I also don't believe that everyones favorite friend Sadaam Hussein had nothing to do w/ it. Weather indirectly or directly , he had to have helped out in some way. We've all heard his cryptic quotes on the news. He doesn't even express sympathy for the people who have died in it. He also harbors terrorists so I see no reason not to go to war w/ Iraq either.
I also wanted to comment on our president. First of all I just wanted to say that he has done an absolutely wonderful job in handling this attack. If you've seen him on the news then you know that he is very exhausted by the way he looks. I was as suspicious as anyone else during the election. However, this is not a time for us to be bickering over our leader. He's our leader and that's it. For the first time since te election I respect the guy. He really does care about this country.
Finally I wanted to comment on something else. I'm in my high school marching band. We had a game last friday night. On the way there we saw something extraordinary. People were waving American flags and holding candles. At that time I felt that this country is very special. Never in our generation has something touched everyone. I'm very proud to be an American.

Remember this though "United we stand , divided we fall." Let's stay this united even after this all plays out because that's what this country is based on.

     16 September 2001, 23:46 GMT

Re: The High Price of Freedom
jjthebear Account Info

Now, I've read most of this and it's all very interesting, but I wanto give this issue to you from a different point of view, a Mormon's point of view. Everything I have read, I have agreed with the Christian's arguements.

Now, I have faith that Bush did not win the election without the popular vote for no reason. I think that he was the one destined to handle this situation. Let's face it, the electoral college makes NO SENSE, it is pointless, however, seeing as how I feel that the constitution was inspired by God, and how this is a promised land (the USA), what if they put this in, and the then the purpose was so that George Bush would win?

Now the next thing, the bible really does condone capital punishment, therefor I am all for it. Asama Bin Laden, and everybody affiliated with him, needs to be killed and NOW. The loss in New York is larger then life and CANNOT be ignored for any reason. I believe that we have givin Osama plenty of time to stop his actions, because in my opinion we should have killed him before this whole incident anyways.

My solution is to put all the arab countries under NATO control, but still allow them to have their own governments.

Also, LDS members (Latter Day Saints aka Mormons) believe that whenever a country or people becomes unritious, and lets face it the moral decay in this country is getting worse and worse, then the protection God grants is taken away. We also believe that before the second coming of Christ, war's and plauges and really really bad things will happen to everybody. We specifically believe that the war's will be with the Arab countries.

Every great civilization ever has been struck down so suddenly. Look at Rome, moral decay began occuring there also right about when they were destroyed!

This isn't to try to get you to convert or anything, but if you ask me it makes a whole lot of sense, and this problem is too small to ignore.

George Bush will handle this problem I just know it, thanks for reading my ramblings

     17 September 2001, 06:34 GMT

Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Tse Tse  Account Info

I must agree with you about the "uniting arab countries part". I keep hearing Bush, telling that the US will *show* the *world*. The US doesn't have to show the world anything. This isn't the fight of one country. The US should involve as many parties as possible. In the first place their allies, Europe (which already happened), but also countries as Russia and China. Next they should try to unite as many Arab countries as possible. Not to be on the safe side, but because they're also against terrorism.

     17 September 2001, 10:17 GMT


The High Price of Freedom....
daniel sheeper  Account Info

I agree... But you know, that's not Bush's style of solving problems.He still thinks he's in Texas, where everybody can solve his problem with a gun on his own... *g*

     17 September 2001, 21:09 GMT

Re: The High Price of Freedom....
Kane_82586 Account Info

I am from Texas, and I am sick of you and most people thinking we are all cowboys who live in covered wagons on the prarie eating beans and fighting mexicans. In fact, none of us are. No one solves problems with guns on their own. Only about 1 in 50 people has the notorious "Texas accent," and even then not to a very big degree. The "cowboy" is extinct. In fact, Texas is one of the most industrialized and technological states, with many computer, aircraft, and oil plants throughout it. Dallas and Houston are two of the biggest cities to be found in America. You probably were joking, but I hate sterotypes, especially this one because it is just so stupid.

     18 September 2001, 00:01 GMT

Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom....
lalu

<<we are all cowboys who live in covered wagons on the prarie eating beans and fighting mexicans.>>

Cool, I didn't know that ;-)

     18 September 2001, 06:13 GMT


Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom....
daniel sheeper  Account Info

only beans? really?!? How boring.....

     19 September 2001, 22:01 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom....
Kane_82586 Account Info

OK.... if you read my statement i said we AREN'T cowboys. And beef comes from cows, kept by ranchers, who are very different from the stereotypical cowboy. There are cattle ranchers all over the world.

     21 September 2001, 04:16 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom....
daniel sheeper  Account Info

OK, but I think you can't deny that Texas isn't the peacefullest state in USA... If there are any criminals you can't handle they get jugded to death.. and if some terrorists are attacking some of Bush's best buildings, he doesn't ask why they did so but he tries everything to kill these people...But do you think this will prevent other people from hating America?!? No they'll feel bitterness, and then people like bin Laden are real heroes!!

     21 September 2001, 17:14 GMT

Texas is cool !!!!!!!
daniel sheeper  Account Info

OK, I'll take it back... Just a joke

     19 September 2001, 22:03 GMT


Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom....
Beta

"The "cowboy" is extinct."

Really? I didn't know that. So where do we get our beef from? Cowgirls?

     20 September 2001, 03:32 GMT


Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom....
Robert Gladson  Account Info

No. We get beef from cows, and nice replicators in our homes.

-- Live long and Prosper

     29 September 2001, 06:41 GMT


Re: The High Price of Freedom....
jeff m  Account Info

I'm from texas too, and i'm not a cowboy, just a nerd.

     19 September 2001, 14:00 GMT

Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Kazuya Cat  Account Info

Look, I am LDS too, but I disagree with you about a few things. Putting the Arab nations under centralized gov't under Nato is a bad idea. Even though they would have their own governments they would only be puppets, and no one likes being a puppet. That would only cause more unrest and hate agianst the US. The US is seen as the leader of NATO and as such would be a prime target for gurilla nationalists. Also you would be taking away the rights that you so cherish as an American. Look at why we broke away from Britan. We had our own "governments" then too. Trying to take away the Arab countries control is also bad because it gives whoever is the in charge of the Arab countires sole power to decide what do do with most of the world's oil. It will be bad once we are not the the rulers of NATO. Also we really need to consider what we are doing before we judge. If we go out and blow up some of Afganistan why wouldn't it be terrorism? We are just more sophisticated terrorists than they. Esp. in south America. Do you know how many leaders we covertly assinated? You've got to admit that that was terrorism.
Kazuya Cat

     18 September 2001, 00:22 GMT

Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
jjthebear Account Info

I guess your right, but I have a few more things to say as well:

STOP BASHING ON BUSH AND TEXANS!!! I am so sick of all this "He said the word strategery and so he's a moron and can't lead our country in any way at all so there" crap. There is nothing wrong with texans. Did the liberals make fun of Arkansas when Bill Clinton was president? Did they say "He's from a state that likes to eat dog meat"? No, they didn't so STOP MAKING FUN OF TEXAS!!!

And about those assassinations, they were supported by NATO (I believe), AND by international law under the terms of national interest (I believe)...

     18 September 2001, 06:36 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Kazuya Cat  Account Info

First of all if you don't want people bashing on Texans you shouldn't bash on others. The best way to dispel the myth that all Texans are cow-people is to prove them wrong, not accentuate the point. Oh, we assinated many of the people before NATO was formed, so we must have done it without NATO's consent. Oh, and why would you want NATO to be in charge of the Arab nations? Do you know what NATO stands for? North Atlantic Treaty Organization. Last time I checked the Middle East was not part of North America. Perhaps you meant the UN?

     18 September 2001, 22:36 GMT

Re: Re.....RE:Texans......of Freedom
daniel sheeper  Account Info

>>Did the liberals make fun of Arkansas when Bill Clinton was president?<< - No, because there was nothing wrong with Bill Clinton... but calm down.. of course I do know, that Texans aren't Cowboys anymore. But do you think Bush is clever enough not just to attack the enemy, but starts to think about,why the terrorists have such ideas of America as they have?

     19 September 2001, 22:19 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Beta

"STOP BASHING ON BUSH...."

Why? He's a moron...I mean, he can't even say "strategy"! How could a person like this lead our country?

So there.

     20 September 2001, 03:26 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Kazuya Cat  Account Info

Well, I am glad that you are such a big man. I bet that you wouldn't ever make any mistakes when you speak before the entire country. If anything, we should be rallying behind Bush, as he is the elected leader of the Nation. Get a grip and stop trying to break others down for your pleasure. Besides that one is old. Not even creative...

     20 September 2001, 15:18 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Beta

"Well, I am glad that you are such a big man."
[bows]
Thank you.

I realize that Bush is the "elected" leader of our nation, and I'll try to support him, because even though he might be a moron, I'll accept the fact that he's president.

     22 September 2001, 06:50 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Kazuya Cat  Account Info

If you think that Bush is a moron because he makes mistakes when he speaks you may want to revise your definition. Would you rather have an extremly stupid, but charismatic and well scripted president? Being president is about making decisions, not perfectly reading a telepromter.
It is so very generous of you to "try" to support the president. Hopefully he will "try" to support you when he makes decisions...
Kazuya Cat

     22 September 2001, 07:37 GMT

Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Barrett Anderson  Account Info
(Web Page)

WOW!!! MORE LDS PEOPLE THAN JUST ME ON TICALC.ORG??? I HAD NO IDEA! btw, do any of you other LDS's think you can help me make an ebook the The Book of Mormon for the 89? like i do half and you do half? i have it in raw text but the comp can only handle so much copying at a time so it takes forever.

     18 September 2001, 06:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Tse Tse  Account Info

hmm, it's not about ruling those countries, it's about having them as allies. International terrorism should be handled internationally, not just by the US.

And, it would also be very good for our economy too.

     18 September 2001, 12:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
lalu

<<International terrorism should be handled internationally, not just by the US.>>

Yes, definitely.

     29 September 2001, 09:45 GMT


Re: Re: The High Price of Freedom
Barrett Anderson  Account Info
(Web Page)

"Asama Bin Laden, and everybody affiliated with him, needs to be killed and NOW"

(also from an LDS perspective)
i agree to a certain degree. (for the LDS's, this would go along with Nephi killing laban - hehe... laban/laden... sounds alike huh? coinsidence maybe - maybe not) it would be better for bin laden to die than waiting for him to kill thousands more(or in laben's case - lead thousands to living evil lives). however today, there are other methods of restricting someone's ability to do bad stuff. Kill bin-laden, but just put everyone affiliated with him in some kind of international prison. Killing EVERYONE affiliated with him (thousands) would just cause more war. (maybe this very event will cause all the war and bad stuff that was revealed to come just before the 2nd coming)

     19 September 2001, 04:25 GMT

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