Survey posted 2003-08-04 14:08 by Henrik.

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Unfortunately, probably not. I have an 83+, but I wish I had an 83+ SE, and an 89, 92+, or V200.

I'd rather pick up one of these a couple of months into the school year...

http://www.hpcalc.org/hp49gplus.php

I second that...

That has got to be the best calc I've ever seen w/o a QWERTY keyboard *drool*

Unfortunately, it probably will not be as popular as an 89, and there doesn't seem to be as much 3rd party software for hp as there is for TI. It'd be cool if TI made another version of the TI-89 that was similar to that (except without an ARM9 modem processor, but something cooler, like an ARM SA110 which is found in the iPAQ pocket pc).

Well, if they put a CPU into a calc that's in a pocket PC, they basically are making a ppc, with crummier UI.

No, I meant to use an ARM SA110 for the speed and computing power, but with a nearly identical OS that a "regular" TI-89 would use (AMS 3.0!)

On second thought, it'll probably be a few months later than I previously stated, if at all. I think my calculator needs are met for the time being, so I'll get a sword first...

I already have a TI-86, but I got a TI-83 Plus off of eBay for programming variety.

I have been working at Target this summer and I convinced this kid/friend to buy an 86 over an 83+. Couldn't get him to go for the 89. Guess I could use a little help with my sales pitch.

Who knew that I would actually be using the knowledge I gained from this site in the "real world!"

Curious, who prefers the 83+ over the 86? why????

My guess is that people like the 83+ over the 86 because it is easier to use. People probably just don't want to challenge themselves or something. Not to mention teachers are usually trained, I guess you could say, with using the 83 series. Personally, I'd go for the 68k calcs. They're fun to use. :-D

By the way, I'm not buying any new calculator for school. I've got an 89, 92 and an 83 Plus (which is my dad's). So I'm pretty much set for now.

It's not that I don't want to challenge myself, it's just that the menu system is really ugly, and it's awkward to use. That's all. The calc is nice, though.

>> the menu system is really ugly, and it's awkward to use

Yeah, that is the number 1 thing I hear that people don't like about it. I like it because it doesn't take up the whole screen like the 83 series menu does. Seriously that is the stupidest reason to dislike one calc over another, and it is just as hard to learn to use as an 83 is. Well I guess it might be harder considering that the 86 does more.

Oh well, guess I should just start showing the customers the 68k calcs first. All problems solved!

Ugly menu system? It's a LOT more efficient than the one on the '83+ because you can see what you're typing WHILE viewing the menu.

So? I just don't go for that type of menu. The calc is nice... but that menu system... LOL
I like the way the TI-89 does it. With those fake window things. I also like the TI-82 series of menus. It's less confusing, and easier (to me) to use.

Actually form what I've gathered in the Help section in TIGCC those windows are every bit true, you can even have multiple ones open but only one active.

Yeah, and I only have one problem with those menus... they load slow, but not slow enough for it to be a problem. Anyway, open up the units menu or the MEM menu. It opens a little slower than immediately, but that's not really a problem.

Too bad you can't put any other OSs on the calcs, like Linux or FreeBSD or Mac OS X

It is a nice calc, but (in my opinion) isn't awkward to use. Here are my reasons I like the TI-86 better than the TI-83+:

It has a higher-resolution display (good for graphing, not just games),

the menus are better (you can see the graph screen or homescreen while viewing a menu, and you can see two layers of menus at a time, so you don't get lost),

the key layout is more logical (the wind, zoom, trace, and graph keys are only going to be used during graphing-and almost never separately-why not put them on a graph menu? It also doesn't look like they tried to fit in every key function any way they could and had to squeeze them in. Also, you don't have to press 2nd to get to the exit key.),

and the delete screen is better-it allows you to see the total size of all the Programs, for example, and it shows the variable types in the Delete All menu.

Still, the '83+ is a very good calculator-I bought one myself! Most of these reasons are personal preferences. The only thing lacking on the '86 is flash-for that reason, if someone could send me a schematic of the TI-86, I would design a TI-86+ with flash and more functions than the original.

Thought of a few more reasons:

It would be easier for a new user to graph on an 86-they press the Graph key then F1 for y(x)=, then F5 for Graph! On an 83+, they would have to press Y=, then Graph. How obvious is that first keypress?

There's the confusion with all the different shells, as Morgan says below. I haven't been able to find any 83+ shells that run non-Ion, MirageOS, or TSE programs, so if you don't write for a shell, you have to run EVERY program with asm(prgmPROG (which gets REALLY annoying; that's why I use iShell)-you also can't just type the program name like on the 86, you have to select it from the Prgm menu so that there's the "prgm" at the beginning.

You can't enter lowercase letters on the 83+ without a utility to set a certain system flag. I also don't think that you can set it on lowercase alpha-lock.

This is a small issue, but the W in the variable-width font looks like an H. ;)

And some important ones:

The '83+ can only solve equations that start with 0=! I also couldn't find a way to store equations, unlike the '86, so you would have to type the equation every time.

Unlike the '86, the '83+ doesn't have built-in unit conversions!

It also doesn't have constants (except for e and i)!

or a simultaneous equation solver!

or a polynomial solver!

The only advantages it has over the '86 are flash memory (it doesn't even have as much RAM) and the screen that's level with the rest of the case.

Even more:

The '86 has many greek and other useful characters in the Char menu that the '83+ doesn't.

The '83+ can't work with numbers in bases other than 10, which the '86 can.

>> Curious, who prefers the 83+ over the 86? why????

I can think of several reasons.

1. The menu system is intimidating
2. There's no FlashROM for the user
3. There is more support for the 83+ (SE) (there are people who will argue this, I'm sure, but I've never seen in-store advertisment for an 86; they are all for the 83+ SE and 89)
4. It's becoming obsolete (I've noticed that there are less frequent in stores these days)
5. The USB TI GraphLink does not support it (check the box; it also doesn't support the 85, 82, or 73)

Don't get me wrong; the 86 is still a good design, but it's harder to own and care for.

>> 5. The USB TI GraphLink does not support it (check the box; it also doesn't support the 85, 82, or 73)

I believe TiLP does work with Silver USB and the 86. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

The box on the link itself says that it is incompatable with the 86, but this may only be some of the time. I dunno; I shouldn't be talking because I don't have an 86.

"It works with all cables (serial, parallel, BlackLink, GreyLink, SilverLink and AVRlink cables, VTi and TiEmu virtual links) and all calcs (TI73,82,83,83+,85,86,89,92,92+,V200)."

That's from the description of TiLP, in the Windows link section. Silverlink and 86... Hmm...

>> 2. There's no FlashROM for the user
I doubt you've ever used an 86. There IS Flash ROM.

>>5. The USB TI GraphLink does not support it (check the box; it also doesn't support the 85, 82, or 73)
It supports the 86. Just not the 85, 82, and 73. And 80 and 81, but that's because they don't have link ports. ^_^

In this case the Flash ROM bit is refering to upgrade capabilities, something the 86 does not have.

<check link>

No 86 :-(

Honestly I'm not really supprised, its an old model...soon to be a classic ;)

nah... not even a classic. just old

>> it's harder to own and care for.

I find this hard to believe. The 86 is quite possible the most simple calculator to own as far as running programs is concerned. Unlike the 82, 83, 83+/SE, 85, 89, 92, and 92+ it is the only ASM capable calculator that does not require any shell what-so-ever. All programs can run with or withhout a shell. This limits the confusion of the user tremendously. So, you don't have these 4 or 5 required to run all these programs.

Yeah it doesn't have upgrade ability, but does it really need it. Not really. All that I have seen that has come out of these pointless ROM upgrades for the 83 series is added support for a keyboard, which only 2% of users actually use and added flash apps, which can easily be made for the 86. I I;m not going to even go into the confusion about the 68k ROM upgrades. Don't get me wrong here, I still think the 68k calcs are superior to all calcs in existance.

I'll give you number 3 and 5, but there are still really easy ways of getting programs to your calc. I have used both TI-Connect and TI-Graph link, and I prefer TI-Graph link. It might be a little slower, but it easier to use as a whole.

It may have nostub assembly support, but because the TI Graph Link is being replaced by the USB link (which says in the fine print that it is not compatable with the 86 (my math teacher had to borrow my old black link because of this because he wanted some games on his 86)). What I meant by it not having FlashROM is that you cannot archive progs or variables on an 86 to prevent the loss of extensive data in case of a system crash due to a faulty assembly prog. For you, caring for an 86 would be no challenge because of your extensive knowledge of TI products and their capabilities, but for a rookie, especially in the near future, caring for an 86 would require much more work because the black TI Graph Link is already disappearing, and therefore any progs they could want would need to come from people like you, in which unfortunately there are so few of, because there would be no computer support.

I don't know about there, but here in Australia the 'Black Ti-Graph Link' is near impossible to tell if it's dissapearing...You can buy one almost anywhere, and if there not in stores, you can try local high schools. Their suppliers are most likely a couple of years out-of-date :P
but yeh'
<<Stop ganging up on JcN; JcN think before you type>>
FYI: I just reached my first 1K Downloads, w00t!

I agree with you completely. See my list of reasons above why the '86 is better than the '83+.

Oh, well, I guess the most popular calculator is never the best one :-/. At least all us '86 owners know that we have better calculators.