Survey posted 2000-02-27 20:36 by Andy.

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It depends on what test it is. On something like the SAT or (laugh) FCAT, you don't need any fancy calculator, because the test isn't too hard. Besides, these tests (supposedly) test exactly what the calc would be doing for you.

However, on a difficult math exam, where even a TI-89 wouldn't give you the answers easily, the calculator simply saves you time. In short, if you're taking a really hard test, you obviously know how to do the easy stuff, so why waste your time?

what about the equation solver? with that and other programs on some graphing calculators, you can pass the standartized test without even thinking.......

First off, please stop using the 89 as a target. My math teacher already thinks I'm the devil because I have one. Second, most SAT's have a calculator AND a non-calculator section. Third, doing math by hand is fine, and a calc is a great way to check your work. Sometimes its use is unavoidable (try to solve 261,042x^3-412x+22x^21=3, that was one of my test problems)

I think calculators have a lot of beneficial uses, but I do believe you should have an understanding of how the calculators work before making use of them as your exclusive computational tool. Many cases, people use their calculators when they don't realize what is going on. My favorite examples are these: I've heard many people ask, "How do I find the log of something not base 10 or e on my calculator?" The answer is simple, you use the base conversion formula (something your calculator doesn't tell you). Or, "How do I find the nth root on my 89/92?" Once again, knowing a little math helps x^(1/n).

Second of all. You say it is necessary to use the computer for some things. I would agree, but I wouldn't agree that it is necessary for much of the math the average (or above average) student takes. For example, your problem could be solved a number of ways without calculators. You could use linear algebra or newton's method. In any case, the subject was calculators with a CAS... You certainly don't need an 89 or 92 to solve this.

The only problem with log base 10 is the 89 doesn't do symbolic maipulation with log base ten.

Sort-of off topic:
Does anyone know what @n [as in @n(3)] means? I have gotten that as a symolic answer a few times when entering random symbolic integrals that I made up just to see how powerful the 89 is (as a side note I don't know anything about how to do integrals yet (I'm only in Algebra II), and the ones I entered would be really complex to do by hand (I assume))

I used to get the @ symbol when solving problems using sine, cosine, and tangent in the equation. The way to fix that (at least with the solve feature) is to include the following after the solve:

|x>=0 and x<360

This is saying "while x is greater than or equal to zero, and is less then 360. Or 0 and pi if you are solving in radians"

Not being in calc yet, I haven't started on integrals.


Dark Ninja

What equation are you solving, and are you solving for x or another variable?

@n represents any integer.

But I bet it can do ln x/ln 10, which is the same thing as log base 10 of x.

It can, but that is how it outputs it. It would be nice to see it output ln(x)/ln(10) as log(x) instead of ln(x)/ln(10).

I see. That makes sense. :-)

Hopefully you'd be intelligent enough to recognize that ln (x)/ln (10) is = log x. Isn't that what this entire thread is about?

Oviously I know that. My whole point is that it would be better symoblic manipulation if you could work with log(x) as log(x), as it is faster to read then seeing ln(x)/ln(10) and thinking 'log(x)'. It is just faster, both to read and type in (although I could write a function to give me log base ten, but we haven't gotten there in Algebra II yet).

Forget about that function part, "log(" is already a built-it function, the only problem is log(x) returns ln(x)/ln(10), not log(x) - no symbolic manipulation with log, but at least log is in there.

if you aren't getting an A+ in alg 2, (calc or no calc), you really need some help.

Yes I am getting an A+ in Algebra II, but I am not sure of the exact number.
I am also getting at least a 100 in Geometry (or possibly a 101 - extra credit).

And in Algebra II I am not allowed to use my 89 on tests or quizes - it is actually a department policy that 89s can only be used in AP Calc, because the head of the math department got an 89 for christmas and knows about its features, but in Geometry I can use it anyway - even now that we are doing things like rationalizing denominators and simplifying radicals as part of some problems (pygathoran [sp] Therom), but I don't use it (only while we are doing algebra stuff) because I don't want to feel like I cheated (I would if I was allowed to in Algebra II though)

And yes, I really am taking two math courses, and those are accurate grades.
One more unbeliveable fact (for most people that I have met) is that there is not a single TV set in my house, and I don't have any TV tuner cards in my computer. And, there are two new-ish (past year/2years) computers in my house and an old 386 that doesn't work (not unbelievable, just that compared to no TV)

You don't have my Algebra 2 teacher.

I resent that.
(of course, I'm in Algebra II Advanced, but same principal.)

It helps if you do your work. A calculator can't help you with that.

I think you might want to rephrase that. It sounded as if you said that a calculator can't help you do your work. You didn't REALLY mean that, did you?

Yes, I mean that he doesn't do his work. I don't think that calculators can remind you to do your work. They just aid you in doing it.

@n1 (or any other number) means, literally, "any integer n". For instance, "solve(sin(x)=0, x)" will give you "x=@n1*(pi)". This means that any integer n times pi (pi, 2*pi, -400*pi) is a valid solution for x.

Damn smart calculator.

Thanks.
Now for another question:
Why does the number increase if you enter the same thing in a bunch of times (hit enter a bunch of times)
More specific:
Why does solve(sin(x)=0,x) give you
x=@n1*(pi) the first time, but if you enter it again why does it give you
x=@n2*(pi) and then
x=@n3*(pi), ect...

We're sorry, we'll stop picking on the ti-89. A lot of important people have ti-89s. Satan uses a ti-89; he uses it to cheat on standardized tests.

It isn't cheating if you are allowed to use it.

Relax, it was only a joke.

Oh shut up you make me sick.

Fine! I'm sorry I opened my big mouth. Obviously all of you are right and I don't deserve to have an opinion if it differs from your own. I just wonder how many of you people actually feel it is morally acceptable to use their calculator on standardized tests and how many people voted yes for the sole reason that they just don't want to give them up when they have to take the tests.

Yes, nobody is allowed to have an opinion that is not mine. I am Laura the Great! :)

Use your 83 to graph y1=261042x^3-412x+22x^21 and y2=3 and do the rest of the test while you're waiting.

What kind of a teacher gives you a problem 261,042x^3-412x+22x^21=3?

Can you talk about the context in which this problem was given? Algebra II?

Seems like an awfully stupid way to write a test. I'm in Calculus and I don't see an obvious solution to that problem (short of graphing)

I seriously doubt he saw that problem. Cubics are hard as hell. (unless, of course, you use the neat little POLY solver)