ticalc.org
Basics Archives Community Services Programming
Hardware Help About Search Your Account
   Home :: Archives :: News :: Newsboard Anarchy Trial

Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Posted by Magnus on 25 October 1999, 14:24 GMT

As any regular visitor to our site knows, there have recently been a lot of controversy about the comments on our newsboard. In accordance with our site policy, we have deleted comments that we have considered to be in violation of the guidelines or completely off topic. This has rewarded us with everything from "thank you"-notices to being called communists. It has also taken up a lot of valuable time from our staff members.

It was clear that something had to be done about the situation. As we saw it, we had three alternatives. We have tried the first one, are right now trying the second one, and would like to avoid the third one if possible.

The first one was to disable the posting permissions for the people who posted most off-topic or abusive articles (which accounts were affected is not relevant here). Naturally, this was done after multiple warnings to the persons in question. This was done a couple of weeks ago, the result of which each person can evaluate for themselves. The trial was in force around Oct 9th to Oct 19th.

The second one is the one we are trying now. For this two week period, we will no longer delete off-topic posts. We will let any kind of discussion go on. We will still delete articles that are clearly out to disrupt the page layout (such as 10 pages of blank lines), or that can be considered illegal or highly inappropriate (such as pornography links or anything like that). Apart from that, anything goes. Please note that there is no change in our policy as to what we will answer in this. We will still not answer off-topic posts. If you want to get in touch with the staff, use e-mail.
This trial will run from the posting of this article for two weeks, and will close on Nov 7th.

The third option, which we would like to avoid but will have to fall back to unless the situation is resolved, is to turn off the commenting on our news articles. News would continue to be posted, but the user commenting would be disabled. Discussions would be referred to the mailinglists where appropriate. While we think that this would remove value from our site, there is a limit to how much we can provide as a free service, and we have been pushing close to that limit.

Once the current trial is over, on Nov 7th, a survey will be posted, in which we will ask you, our visitors, which way you think we should handle the situation. The survey will be open for one week. This survey will be purely suggestional - we will make the decision based on the result of that survey and based on what we think at that time ourselves. The survey is not decision-binding. However, we can guarantee that the result of the survey (as well as the result of the trial in whole) will have great influence on the decision.

We have been accused (by certain parties, as far as we have noticed it is not a general concern, but we would still like to address it here) of not listening to the voice of our community. We feel that this has not been the case before, and certainly will not be in this case. But as usual, we ask you to send your constructive comments to our staff directly at news@ticalc.org (assuming it is about our news system). We do not constantly monitor our comment board for site suggestions. We do, however, keep all mail we receive to the appropriate mailing addresses, and we take into consideration every idea that is proposed to us.

We regret that the situation has gone as far as it has. Any other suggestions on how to deal with it are very welcome - drop us a mail anytime.

 


The comments below are written by ticalc.org visitors. Their views are not necessarily those of ticalc.org, and ticalc.org takes no responsibility for their content.


Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Adam Berlinsky-Schine  Account Info
(Web Page)

Maybe there's more than your three suggested options. If you took just one more of slashdot's ideas and worked with it... Suppose the ticalc.org staff moderated as before (communism, whatever), but instead of deleting comments, marked them as "-1" or the equivelent. Totally inappropriate comments could be -2, and off topic but not inappropriate comments could be -1. Then users would be allowed to choose what comments they want to see - if they only want on-topic, constructive comments they could view all comments that the staff didn't mark as -1 or -2. People who wanted to see all comments except those "-2" or inappropriate comments (ticalc.org and everyone else sucks ass and by the way port all the damn TI-92 programs to the damn 83+) could browse only the "normal" and "-1" comments.

Of course it's not perfect, but it could be worked with; the ticalc.org staff could probably adapt the system better for their needs. It wouldn't be censorship or communism since comments aren't deleted, and people who actually care to read all the junk posted would be allowed to.

     25 October 1999, 22:45 GMT

Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Nick Disabato  Account Info
(Web Page)

We pondered that, but you also have to keep in mind the fact that we simply don't have the vast userbase that Slashdot has to put this in the hands of the users.
Then, we'd have to moderate all the comments ourselves or we'd have to put up with a lackluster way to rate stuff. Either way, it's bad. :(

--BlueCalx

     25 October 1999, 22:58 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Adam Berlinsky-Schine  Account Info
(Web Page)

I didn't say to put it in the hands of the users; the ticalc.org members would still be the one's rating the comments, but instead of deleting the comments they would just mark them as -1 or -2. Surely you don't need a sufficiently more advanced database to add an extra "Rating" collumn :)

It's no more work than the old "communist system"

     25 October 1999, 23:10 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

But Adam, it is more work than the old system. Instead of simply scanning the comments to see if any comments were posted that they didn't like, they would have to spend time INDIVIDUALLY rating each comment, and deciding whether it should be a "1", "-1", "-2", or whatever. And to do a good job, that takes time. I think more time than its actually worth.

     25 October 1999, 23:41 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Ed Fry  Account Info
(Web Page)

Not if the Board Defaults all the messages posted to 1, then any message that is inapproiate can be set to 0 by the ticalc.org staff. Then just modify the message board script to just show only the title bar of the moderated 0 Message in the Red Fake News Color, and have an option in it to View/Hide moderated comments on the right hand side of the title bar where the name and web page occurs. It wouldn't take a major change in the script to set up this system, in fact, it should be almost exactly like how they moderate their fake news on their site. It also allows users to read all of the comments without much of a hasle because they can view them (or hide them) all on the fly as well as set their preference in their account information, and no comments get deleted.

     26 October 1999, 17:00 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

Problem: ticalc.org would still try to censor comments they didn't agree with, by setting them down too low.

     26 October 1999, 17:28 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
ticalc_chris Account Info
(Web Page)

Why's that a problem? Or in other words, who's to say we're not allowed to do that?

Chris

     26 October 1999, 18:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

You can do whatever you want. And so can the government of China. Do you know what they do? They have to lock people up in prison just to make them stop saying things.

     27 October 1999, 00:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Ed Fry  Account Info
(Web Page)

Ture, but the Chinese dont let the media go to the prison so that the media can get the prisoner's side of the story like you can in the US.(example of moderated comment board)

They just imprison them for life or execute them so that they cant talk (example of deleting comments)

     27 October 1999, 03:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

I never said it was a perfect analogy. I'm sure if you compared the ticalc.org staff to any country or any government in human history, you would never find a perfect match.

     27 October 1999, 08:25 GMT

BUT
Kaxman  Account Info

But this would be fine, if we have the so-called "Hide/Show Comments rated <1" or whatever.

     26 October 1999, 23:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Adam Berlinsky-Schine  Account Info
(Web Page)

But people (like you, perhaps), who WANT to see off topic posts would be allowed to. If people really don't want to listen to you whining about minor details wrong with ticalc.org they wouldn't have to - but those who wanted to would be able to. Not censorship, they're allowing everyone to post what they want and people can read what they want. It would just help them to weed out things that they didn't want to read.

     27 October 1999, 03:48 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

I said ticalc.org would still TRY to censor by marking comments lower than what they should be. True, its not censorship in the true meaning of the word.

     27 October 1999, 08:27 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
ticalc_chris Account Info
(Web Page)

And what are the criteria for "what they should be?"

Chris

     28 October 1999, 07:37 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

Exactly Chris. It's all subjective, and that's the problem. Many comments would lie in the gray area, and it would be totally up to the staff. And you know just as well as I do, the staff hasn't been very good about staying inpartial when deleting comments.

So this is exactly why this system isn't ideal.

     28 October 1999, 17:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
ticalc_chris Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, if you don't trust our staff to moderate the comments, who will do it? Every person has a different idea about what kinds of comments are acceptable. No system that neglects to take subjective judgment into account will do a very good job at moderation.

The good part is, this is our site and we do get to moderate comments subjectively. And you get to like it, or choose not to use it. This isn't designed to be a protected forum for free speech on any topic you like. Each article has a narrow topic of discussion and if we decide something you post doesn't belong there, tough. Nobody should realistically have anything so important to say that it's worth waging a war over whether it gets deleted or not -- we are a calculator site.

Chris

     28 October 1999, 23:04 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

Right, I don't trust your staff. :)

     29 October 1999, 14:41 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Rackford Smith  Account Info
(Web Page)

Dude, Nick, you are like totally obsessed with saying "ponder" or "pondering", what the fuck is up with that?

--Racko

     27 October 1999, 02:30 GMT

Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

Its still censorship Adam. People would still bicker and complain that certain comments got unfairly marked as a "-2" or whatever.

And plus, do you really think ticalc.org has that must time on their hands to rate each comment? Come on now... :)

     25 October 1999, 23:20 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Erich Oelschlegel  Account Info
(Web Page)

I'll do it... :)

~ferich

     25 October 1999, 23:46 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Bryan Rabeler  Account Info
(Web Page)

Thats not the point. :) People would complain, and its not worth it. And its still censorship. I really think the TI community can be mature about this, we don't need a slashdot system.

     26 October 1999, 00:09 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
augustz

This last comment was a bit rich in the irony system :)

     26 October 1999, 06:14 GMT


Re: Re: Newsboard Anarchy Trial
Ed Fry  Account Info
(Web Page)

Click on the Web page link above.

Personally, I'd like to see this for a moderation system.

     27 October 1999, 04:45 GMT

1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  

You can change the number of comments per page in Account Preferences.

  Copyright © 1996-2012, the ticalc.org project. All rights reserved. | Contact Us | Disclaimer