does anyone know where to get EE*pro software for free?

Personally, I think it's sad that people and individuals must be reminded to practice basic manners. The entire point of this site is to offer a wide variety of information resources to users, at no cost to the users, and it should relate to calculators in some form or another. We don't need to bring up a pro/con discussion on banning abortion, etc., so let's all try to stay on task here. I'm simply basing my points here on the overall census that I've gathered from replies in this discussion. I've only been around here for about two weeks but I'm aware of what can happen when users abuse a priviledge that they're offered. And we must all remember this; we're being offered a free service and we are not entitled to it, therefore it's a priviledge and we need to respect that.

Furthermore, I understand that you may receive criticism for banning certain posts, but this isn't the only place to have ever done that. A newsgroup, I believe it's rec.audio.high-end that I used to follow practiced authenticating each and every post; nothing would get bye without their approval. I'm not saying that it must come to this, and we all don't have time for that, but I'm simply stating that if it came to that, it's not unheard of.

As well, if it hasn't appeared obvious yet to some folks,, the URL www.ticalc.org may hint at the general point of discussion in case anyone seems to wander off-track a lot; we're supposed to be covering Texas Instruments calculators, particularly the graphing variety.

Personally, I'm up for whatever the webmasters want. If it means banning discussion boards, though I hope that it won't come to that, as I'm sure that in the coming months of my first steps into programming that I might need help, then so be it. It's their servers, time, and work that make this site happen. As well, and I don't know who did it, but someone has essentially spammed the Links section with sites on how to "strike it rich" which are entirely off-topic for this site, if anyone was looking to tidy some stuff up.

Overall, this site is a great resource for files, news, and bringing together many users, some of which have years of experience and who are willing to share their knowledge. If we can all manage to act like decent, responsible, human beings, we shouldn't have any problems in the future.

The way I see it, TIcalc isn't under any sort of obligation to post anything. It is a private group that should regulate what is posted. Otherwise it would become imposible to find information.

Just exactly what information do you expect to find on the comment boards? Except for the ones having program ideas and upcoming programs (which are very poorly organized and impossible to read), I doubt you would find too much insight in the comment boards...

The point of the comment boards is not to find information. It is to express your opinion about the news item at hand and to see other people's opinions. It is also not a ticalc.org proproganda tool.

It is also not an *anti*-ticalc.org propAganda tool. It *is* whatever we want it to be, and if we wanted to just post propaganda all the time, that would be fine. You may not agree with it, but you don't get to tell us what our comment boards are for.

Chris

Sure, but if you call it a propaganda tool, then that strengthens the case that you are really communist.

Yes, Mr. McCarthy, it certainly does. Those damn Commies have been censoring message boards since the Bolshivik Revolution. Hang 'em high, Joe.

This is a pretty ingenious plan by ticalc.org. But so far, it hasn't worked. Their hope is that something like the "Eugene" threads will happen, and then when the two weeks is up they'll be able to say "look what happens when we don't remove comments". That's what they want to be able to say.

I find it very interesting that ticalc.org would post a news article about this if they were really wholeheartedly testing it. By posting, they're hoping that someone will say "oh boy, here's my chance", just as someone did earlier on this board about TI-Files. If they really wanted to give it a try, they would have not announced the testing until AFTER the test was through. For example, they didn't announce to the world that they were doing "phase 1" as they call it (which involved restricting Bryan's posting abilities).

But now that they think it'll work in their favor, they're announcing it. Wonderful. As far as I'm concerned there's only two options. [A] get rid of the comment boards, or [B] let them be havens of "free speach" (I think that must be how all Swedish spell it). Moderating them to the extent that ticalc.org did is stupid and a waste of the staff's time that could be spent on other things, such as properly categorizing the files. And quite frankly, I don't think [A] is too bad of an option... Everybody says "yay yay comment boards" but just exactly what is it about them that you like?

In one sense I agree with you; I'm sure ticalc.org was hoping that people would post crap. And people have - but they may not have by the time you posted.

But it seems logical to me that they would announce this. After all, if this "anarchy" becane permanent, people would certainly know about it. So they post the announcement just as they would (will) when they make it permenant. If they are "wholeheartedly testing it" then shouldn't they make the situation resemble the "real life" situation (that is, if they were going to do this all the time) as much as possible?

They didn't announce "phase 1" to the world because it didn't concern the world. I'm sure they announced it to the people involved; those with access rights taken away.

I agree with your final points; the old system was pretty much a waste of everyone's time and taking away the boards altogether wouldn't be all that bad. But read my option #4 a few comments down :)

Somehow I doubt they are "wholeheartedly testing" this...

Exactly. I find it hard to believe ticalc.org won't revert back to the old system. Obviously, there are going to be those that will take advantage of this situation and spoil it for the rest of us. But they will be able to cite examples over the next two weeks how this trial didn't work perfectly, and therefore harsh-moderation is the only answer. Its crazy.

That's what i said earlier, dumbo.

But you must have misunderstood, or i worded it poorly. Ah well, you get it now.

You mean up above on this page, somewhere around comment 168? :) I can't keep track of 260+ comments at once.

Boy, am I regretting that post now. I feel so childish and infantile. I believe that ticalc should set up a poll or questionaire about what kinds of things should be allowed on the discussion boards, that will be voted on by both users and the staff. Then everyone has to sign an agreement saying they will follow the rules, or else they will be banned from posting. I don't this is probably a lackluster suggestion, but something should be done. I know now how inappropriate my post was, I will NEVER post something like that that is so off topic and unnecessary. I sincerely appologize to the TI-FILES and TICALC.ORG

Adam Winter

Good, I'm glad you've come to that realization. I hope no one else spoils this situation for the rest of us.

First of all, it was me who suggested this trial period. And sure, I can't say I expect(ed) it to work. But I did not (as some other people on our staff did, whom it was is irrelevant. So is their level of education, their political ideology etc) want to close down the boards. This is a compromise - we try it out, we see what happens. We will then listen to what you, our users, have to say about it.

Correct, we did not announce "phase 1" to the general public. It was announced to those that were directly affected by it. (Yes, it is correct that part of it was the restriction of Bryans permissions. Note the part part). I beleive, however, that it was quite clear for any of the general readers. As seen now, I admit that may have been a mistake.

No, all Swedes don't spell it "free speach". We'd probably spell it "yttrandefrihet", which in this case I beleive would be covered by "tryckfrihetsförordningen" (though there are still some debate on wether that one goes for material published on the web). Now, this is completely irrelevant, and nothing more than a personal attack. Well. I can only say the same as somebody else did further up on this page - I don't read through everything I post, and I don't spell-check it. I don't feel that is necessary. If anybody did not understand what I meant, then really, they can skip reading the whole thing. If you cannot understand a simple misspelling like that, then you certainly cannot understand the meaning of the post.

Phase 1 was not announced to me. Did you really announce it literally to some people, or did you think that the "nasty e-mail" you sent out was supposed to imply phase 1?

Also, this trial period is not going to solve anything. Obviously there is going to be some abuse, and members of your staff will point to that and thus suggest that you need moderation again. It's a silly attempt to prove that moderation is the best alternative. Read my other posts to see what I said is the best compromise.

It was not announced as "Phase 1" in a multi-phase test, no. That is because we had not decided that there would be more phases. We have tried these things as we come up with them. So correct, it was not announced as phase 1. Now, I hope you are not telling me that you did not *know* that your permissions were revoked, and why.

Apart from that, your faith in us is very low, but that is no news. How do you suggest it should be done, then? Decide without trying something out?
I suggest you wait for the outcome of the testing period *and the user survey posted after that* before you make these assumptions. While you will probably not be happy whatever we decide (even if we decide to do exactly what you ask us to do, I'm sure you will find something to complain about), at least I will be very interested to hear what *others* think about it.

Of course I knew why my permissions were revoked for one week, but when I asked for examples of why, you refused to give me any.

You bet my faith in you (the staff) is low. Chris basically conspired to get rid of me shortly after the "TI-Files Incident". Why? Somehow the new "staff proposal" was first introduced to the staff only TWO DAYS after the incident surfaced. Is that a coincidence? He used me to get the file archive procedures documented, so he could safely fire me and the site could live on. Sure, I understand why it was done - but it was not moral to do at all.

But anyway, that is beside the point. As a whole, the staff has been unwilling to let down on this censorship issue. I just find it highly unlikely that this option (free speech) will be choosen, even if the survey turns out that way. But maybe I am wrong, we'll see.

Oh and by the way, please do not label this option as "anarchy", it should be "free speech". Labeling it as anarchy is misleading to say the least, and it will affect the outcome of the survey.

Hmm, for some reason it seems like it's going the way they want it to go. Listen to this:

If we give them total anarchy and if they're really bad, we'll not let them post comments anymore.

This sound like my teacher saying, "I'm going to count down from five, and if I catch anyone talking after 1 they lose five points on your latest assignment." And so far it has worked. Also I'm not saying it's bad. I, personally, do not like the flames. And since I don't post much here, it doesn't really matter to me.

There's my two cents :)

They will never totally remove the comment boards. Chris (and the other staff I imagine) have put too much time into the coding and plus, their requests will be cut in half. Nick will never be able to post a record break again. :)

BINGO!!!!





And so said i, earlier, but alas, no one took it to agree with me.