Survey posted 2001-01-07 17:22 by Andy Selle.

Contribute ideas to surveys by sending a mail to survey@ticalc.org.

Whut the hell?!? If it isn't more advanced, then I don't want it. Maybe if it were a Cache Muny Platinum edition with some ice in the grill.

Check this site and comment http://Harridans.8k.com/

What the hell is wrong with you?!? Didn't you read the features? It's got 16 Mhz and has so much Archive space that you can hold over 90 applications. You don't call that more features? The more applications, the more features.
And for all those TI-86 fans, I just want to say that this calculator is faster, more memory and definitely has better looks.

Um, no. Please do not bash the best calculator ever made which can blow any 83 out of the water.

Not the TI-83 Plus (as far as memory) or the TI-83 Plus SE.

unfortunately, the 83 plus silver wil STILL only suppot 24k of ram, thus severely limiting the working space for games, and aside from that, after dealing with an 85 ('till the lcd cracked) then an 86, I could not tolerate the incredibly poor screen of the 82-83 series. Why is there no 86 plus? Anybody from TI care to comment?

I think its because the 83 jacked the program.8xp file format. Seriously, I have owned an 83+ (until it got stolen) and an 86 and by far the 86 has WAY better progs and WAY better graphical capabilities.

Yo, is torrentrue (or whatever it is) gonna shaddup anytime soon? TI-89's are better than the TI-83+ SE, no matter what so yeah.

The TI-89 is the best and from owning a HW1 and HW2 I should know

definitely.

Couldn't agree with you more.

The 89 is the best of both worlds. It has the many mathematical functions of the 86, and the large amount of FlashROM of the 83+/SE. Plus, the screen res is only beaten ny the 92-type "PLT"s. Even though I have an 89 and an 83+SE, I'm still getting an 86. I feel left out of the graphics and game worldm of the 86. I also can't wait for the new functions.

no way! THE 92+ IS MUCH BETTER!

i have an 89 (i bought it to run my 68k programs on the SAT Test), and I really hate it (although it is still better than the 83+ i had). The keyboard is horrible, and so any and all programing has to be done with Graph Link, which greatly complicates debugging. there is no reasonable way to type notes, and worse, the screen is so small that I really do wish I could bring a magnifying glass to the SAT because dialog boxes are displayed in tiny print. All in all, the 89 is basically the same as the 92+, but with a traditional style keyboard and screen, which is (inho) inappropriate on a 68k calc.

as for my 92+: I LOVE IT! as a matter of fact, I keep it in my pocket wherever I go (believe it or not)
the solve() function can easily simplify equations, and give equation answers to math problems which my teacher requires, and the rest of the CAS allows me to do all the things that I cannot do in Algebra, and much more. The games for it are even more impressive. Command and Conquer, a classic PC game can be played on the calculator, as well as a number of 3D high resolution games using the FAT engine. TI's numerous organizer apps allow me to easily manage my schedule, the Integrated Desktop allows me to keep only main programs visible, not their subroutines. TICT's ppg compressor allows me to shrink my programs (i did that to command and conquer), and the latest version of ttstart enables program compatibility with all AMS versions. In addition, I keep all the readme files for my calculator programs in TICT ebooks which are compressed...

The TI-92+ puts Palm Pilots and all other TI Calculators to shame...
and that goes for the V200 as well, since it doesn't fit in my pocket.

The 86 is better in functionality than any 82/83(+(S)) but it isn't the best calculator ever made. I believe the 89 would get that title.

Well, the TI-89 will not do you any good if it isn't allowed in the school. And as for the TI-86, Just because it has advanced mathematical cababilities dosen't make it superior to the TI-83 plus. They can be programmed using applications on the 83 plus. Actually, the TI-83 Plus has the application cababilities, and the TI-86 dosen't. Applications can be used to program advanced funcions and procedures that TI didn't program in. The TI-86 has absolutely no fault tolerance, while the Flash ROM can be used to restore some, if not all, of what was deleted by the crash (given that you back up every once in a while). You can argue that the graph link will back up the files for the TI-86, but that is much more inconvenient. Finally, the TI-83 Plus is MUCH easier to use. I one both calculators, and I barely use the TI-86, simply because it is not nearly as easy to use.

TI-89's are allowed at school and on the SAT tests and stuff.

I'm sorry to break this to you but the TI-89s are not allowed on the SAT and ACT tests. They are not allowed due to their Trigonometry capabilities and since they can preform many Calculus Functions

I'm sorry to break this to you but experience tells us that either the TI-89 IS allowed on the SAT, or the proctors are too stupid not to tell the difference between a TI-89 and a four-function calculator.

no offense to anyone meant, but the 89 is allowed on the SAT's. I don't know about the ACT's because I didn't take them, but, as of a year ago, there was controversy over whether 89s should be allowed, and they ended up not banning them. In fact, in one of the survey questions you answer when you take the SAT, ti-89 is a choice when they ask you which calculator you used.

They may have changed something in the last year, and if they did, I stand corrected. Otherwise, though, 89 are allowed on the SAT.

well, just FYI, i bougth my TI-89 just about a week ago, and right on the package, it says "permittied on the SAT and other standardized tests". in other words, you can use it on teh SAT but not the ACT

well, just FYI, i bougth my TI-89 just about a week ago, and right on the package, it says "permittied on the SAT and other standardized tests". in other words, you can use it on teh SAT but not the ACT. That is percisely why i also carry an 83+ in my backpack also :-)

The 89 that i brought to use on the ACT didn't help me one bit. Dont get me wrong their great on home work and games, but I couldn't use it on the ACT.

Here we go with the best of the best: an 86 shell for the purpose of using the calculator as a 86(for example on the ACT) with the hardware of an 89. Dubbed the 86+, because the 83+ was better than the 86 so the 86+ is better than the 89. And all wrapped up in a yellow cover.

LOL

The TI-86's are crap compared to most calculators and especially to the TI-83+ Silver!!

WRONG
I've had experience with both and the 86 is better.

TI-86 as the "best calc?" Yea right, forget it. TI-89's are kings. They have *much* better games, and they have *much* more memory. With AMS 2.0x you have 720K of archive. Why in the world would you think that TI-86's were the best?

Ten years later, the TI-Nspire CX CAS!

A HW1 TI89's 68000 runs at 10.5mhz, which runs faster than a z80 running at _15_ mhz. And the HW2 TI89s run at 12 mhz =) Don't compare clockspeeds; they mean nothing when the arcitechure of the chips is different.

you'll have to excuse me, I thought that comment said _TI89_. I really need to look into getting glasses... and I really need to not jump into "defend 68k calcs" mode so fast =)

ya

YEA,MAMMOTH IS GONNA BUY ONE!!! I am going to buy one, considering my ti-83plus was STOLEN!!! And with all the extra apps space, archive space, and a cool new look, this is gonna be one kick butt calculator! And I can not vouch for how better or worse it is compared to a ti-86, or 89, because I have never used one, although the games do appear to be much better than what us ti-83plus users have (where is MARIO, ppl?? Sometime soon??). C ya later
Mikey :)
Oh yea, visit my website, WWW.angelfire.com/tx3/mikeymonkey

I still love the 83PSE because of the see-through exterior. Though the Nspire CX CAS is π^π^π! times better.

The HW2 TI-92+ also runs on a 12MHz 68k processor like the TI-89, and as fast as that really old computer (or now "doorstop") that I've got sitting in my basement. :-)

Come on you guys A TI-83+ by any other name (or appearance) will still be exactly the same. Just because they throw in some more memory doesn't make it be able to do symbolic manipulation, 3d graphing or any of the other things that you can get on a TI-89. The TI-89 is still the superior calculator. There is no reason to buy a TI-83+ SE. The TI-89 is still the fastest, most powerful, has the best games, is the best for the amatuer programmer and is the easiest to use in math with its menu interface.

I too would like a shiny silver TI calc but I can wait until a TI-89 SE comes out and you know it will and think of the amount of memory and speed that it could have...

You are completely and totally incorrect. The TI-83 Plus SE is the most advanced TI thusfar. It's has 1.54 megabytes of archive and 24K of ram. It's got a 16 megahertz processor too. And to top it all off, it has an awesome silver body and slide case. Beat that.

--NATE

"Most advanced"???? Well, I have a 4MB memory chip out here right next to me! Just think how many Apps it can hold! I'm gonna go get rid of the worthless TI-89!

i'll take your "worthless TI-89!" And it to my collection of a hw2 89 a 83 and an 83+.

the 89 is the best calc out there by far. . What other calc can do calculus (except the 92's) But in responce to that 4mb chip. .I have a Handspring visor Deluxe. .It has 8 megs build it. . Plus you can buy and 8 meg upgrade. . But other then that you can now make your own springboards. You can add up to 192 megs of flash rom to a spring board making the VDX. have 200 megs of storage space. This PDA beats any calc in my opinion. You can add/convert AND type of file to palm formats (even mp3's) I can also go on the internet with and and talk on AIM while im in school. . I dont think you can do that with any calc. (the 89 in the future possibly) . .. Now you know why Im out of the calc business. Because I've found better toys to play w/. muhaa

I have a compaq ipaq.
A color PDA with 32 megabytes of mem built in, sound recordings, word, excel, money, and great games just to name a few.
It has a 206 Mhz intel Mips based 32 bit strongarm processor all with the same size as your pirce of trash handspring. It beats any calc.
THIS IS NOT A JOKE
GO TO www.compaq.com then click products then goto handhelds
you will see it

Yeah. Well can your iPaq load the datebook in less than a second after you have unloaded it from memory (this is not deleting, this is going to your memory management screen and ending all tasks)? Can your iPaq store a spreadsheet app, wordprocessing app, and charting app in under 300 KB and still sychronize with MS Office on your desktop (see quickoffice at palmgear.com for more information)? Can you download a free C compiler (gcc for palm) and program it? Can you download a $30 compiler (On-board C) and program the thing on itself? Can you pick your software from a collection of 7811 titles (palmgear.com, Jan 12, 2001)? Can you plug in a phone module (Visor Phone, handspring.com) and have it work instantly, without glitches the first time and every time thereafter? Can your iPaq work with Linux or MacOS (palm.com has the palm desktop for many platforms available for download; hadspring is Windows and Mac ready right out of the box)? As for your games - I doubt you have a Wolfenstein clone available for FREE download (it is a really good clone too!). From my experience, I have seen most every Windows Powered or WinCE app ported to Palm OS or cloned (the good ones anyway). And most importantly - does your iPaq work with you, or do you work with it?

To answer your questions, the iPAQ can do many of these things. You can download Linux for your iPAQ (yes, the same Linux you can run on your home PC), thus giving you access to all the software that can run on Linux. Can you download a free compiler? Of course, GCC. Can you download over 7811 software titles? Well, I don't know, but Linux has a lot of software. Can you plug in a phone module? Well, the iPAQ has the ability to use PC cards, thus giving it access to many already-available cards such as: GPS cards, cell phone cards, 2GB+ hard drive cards, wireless Ethernet cards, 56K modem cards, etc. Can the iPAQ work with Linux and MacOS? I don't know about MacOS, but it can RUN Linux :-) About games - Linux has DOOM available for free - not a clone, but the actual game. And think of the possibilities with MAME! With 32MB of RAM, a 206 MHz processor, upgradeable Flash ROM like the TI-89, a great screen, the ability to use PC cards, and Linux, the iPAQ is truly a Pocket PC - Real PC power in the palm of your hand. For strict organizing tasks, the Palm or Visor is cheaper, but I like the iPAQ more :-)

Yes to everything

Why would you need a 206mhz processor on a PDA? Obviously Pocket PC is a resource hog. Sound recordings? The handspring has that. Color? The Prism has just as good color. Word? Excel? Money? All of those exist for PalmOS. Great games, well of course. Another thing, why would you need a 32-bit processor in a PDA? What are you gonna calculate with that? =P (Besides maybe 3d games, but it's a pda, not a gameboy).

Speed and just to say you have it.
Cool, Huh?
Did I mention it weighs SIX ounces
That's smaller and less weight than any graphing calc. that I know of.
The only drawback is price----$500
about $50 more than a Palm VII

the handspring's suck. i had one for about a week and it broke. the game are all crap, and shareware none the less. and not to mention it's el-cheapo calculator in it...

- skyraid

Handsprings are decent if you use them correctly. I didn't have the cash for a Prism and I wanted a color pda, so I went with the IIIc, but I like the Springboard feature. The games for the Palm IIIc own, so I dunno what you're talking about =)

i forgot to mention in my last post about the aim thing. first of all, you need the $175 modem. 2nd, you need a phone line going to it, and batteries for the modem. 3rd, it's not aim - it's the aol anywhere thing and it costs $2.50 an hour. oh, and by the way - i don't think your teachers would let you go online with that pos in school.

Your kinda sounding like a retard. There is AIM for the PalmOS platform, not AOL Anywhere. I have it on my Palm IIIc right now. And if you have your teachers trust, you can go on the internet during school. Handsprings also have wireless modems (although they don't work with the visor deluxe). Another thing, I got my modem for the Palm IIIc for $20 on ebay, not $175 =P The batteries for the modem last like forever, so thats not a problem.

Guys, this is supposed to be about calculators, not handheld PCs. If you want a handheld PC, you don't buy a calculator.

Well said. I was just going to say the same then i saw this. We can all boast what Palm tops we own - or in my case don't, but answer the question next time.

And for those who what to know my answer; Probably.

how do you call that advanced? Like the above comment, the clock speed has nothing to do with it... a mac 500MHz could beat a pentium 600MHz, because it has a different construction..

Plus, why does more memory make it more advanced. Last time I checked, any TI-83 couldn't solve an equation that's not quadratic.. it compares NOTHING to the TI-89's symbolic manipulation. It can do all kinds of stuff.. you should download the ROM to see for yourself. And, the new silver case just makes it less professional looking and more like a gameboy, which people (atleast at my school) would make fun of you for. Believe me, I used to have a hard head like you, until I got a TI-89. It is the most easy to use, most powerful calculator. I have the 83 too, so I KNOW what I'M talking about.

ps- With the 700K or so memory on the TI-89, I've never ONCE filled it completely up. I used to be an avid gamer too.

Yes, but the clock speed compared to 6 megahertz is still a great improvement. This has nothing to compare with other brands. Being advanced does include the memory size. Why didn't they just put 1.54 mb in the TI-83 Plus? This is definently an advance. I was never comparing the TI-83 Plus to the TI-89. The TI-83 Plus SE is the best calculator around for it's purpose: the 86 and down. The TI-89, I agree is more advanced, but the TI-83 Plus still has more memory and style (not that you care about those).

--NATE

I think the whole silver edition is dumb. If hey keep
upgradeing then no one will buy them because no one wanna spend so much money to buy it some people already have 83+ or 89 which is good enough. No one will change a 89 to silver or they will not have two
calculater. Just think about it, you just bought a 83+
and now they are makeing the silver edition what will you do? If TI calcs keep the calcualeters they have right now they will be in good condidtions. SO WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE XBOX MICROSOFT IS MAKEING COMEING IN APRIL.

Might I remind you that this is their first upgrade, or new calculator in about 2 years. Every two years, I'd definetly get a new one of each of the same brand.

For the Xbox, which has NOTHING to do with the TI-83 Plus SE (besides both of them being electronic), I think it's cool. Go to http://www.xbox.com/ for an awesome site with awesome Javascript.

--NATE

FYI, that's not javascript. it's flash
(regarding xbox.com)

doh... I should've know...

also,
you are looking at the TI-83+ SE or whatever as a gaming machine
I look at it and the ti-86 as a MATH machine; which, of course, is it's main function.

In THAT (math) perspective, which is better?

-Brent

Not as a gamming machine, but as an "everything machine". The TI-83 Plus SE is good for everything because of it's application possibilities. Like I've said before, it can have the periodic table, Inequality grapher and more (and that does include games).

--NATE

Quit touting Flash capabilities to add 94 applications. TI has released either one or none (can't remember) Flash App since it's introduction. Not to mention higher calculators have these capabilities built in.

I agree, the TI calculators should definetely be used for MATH! No I am not a teacher. I had quite a few games on my TI-83 Plus until it busted (gack! i'm calculator less!). TI-83's do not need to be upgraded anymore, the only reason I'd have for (maybe) getting a TI-83 SE is the speed.

Only 1.5 megs? Ha! They need 10 megs of archive and 24k ram. Now THAT would be funny. Anyway, wouldn't it eat up batteries faster because it's clocked faster?

I wish that they just re-designed the whole thing so that they could add a lot of ram like the 89 has (forget reverse compatibility - I'm not much for calc games anyway). Personally, I would rather buy an 89 than this new 83 Plus. Here's why:
89 is MUCH more powerful
Price difference is minor
I have already taken the ACT/SAT and am in AP Calc (ok, that would be my main reason, but I already have an 89 and love it)

It feels like the new 83 is TI's way of putting a high capacity tape drive on a 386 computer. In the end, it's still just a 386, and I'd rather have a Pentium system without the tape drive.

Amen! The 89 has all the functionality any math student needs without having to buy the extra apps (I know it comes with 4 free, but what if you delete them?) TI is promissing (when they arrive is anyone's guess). Plus, there is plenty of power under my little buddy's plastic case to get me through the thoughest problems. The 83++ will strain when you tell it to graph z(x,y)=x*0.85 + y*.15 (our semester test weights, by the way). And let's not talk about simplifying complex equasions.... Whew!

And for those of you who game, the 89 has 4-bit greyscale (8 "colors"), the 83, 83+, and 83++ has 1-bit (black and white) "greyscale." The 89 is also "smart" enough to unarchive something before execution (this is not from a shell, mind you).

David, you are really right -- who cares about a 386 with a deluxe tape drive when you can get the Pentium!

I've had alot of experience with both the 86 and 83+.

The 86 is superior to 83+ feature wise.
The 83+ is superior to 86 memory wise.

Take your pick.

argeed!

agreed!

Half agreed. If you consider standard RAM more of a feature. I agree, but the problem with archive memory is that the 8x architecture (hell even the 89/92) won't let you run a program from flash/archive and keep it there, unless it's a flash app. So the 86 have much more room for larger programs. 128k program size limit as compared to the 83+ 24k limit.

It's not quite that simple:

TI-83+S TI-86

Display
64x96 64x128 screen size
8x21 8x21 characters on screen

Graphing
X/X X/ polar/sequence graphing
X/X difeq/slope & dir fields
X RK,euler,initial cond. list

Programming
X user-defined functions*

Memory
24K 96K user-available RAM
1.54M N/A ROM

Mathematics
X polynomial eqns
X simultaneous eqns
X bin,hex,oct operations

Statistics
999 6000 list length
10 9 regression models
X via WWW statistics application

Matrices
10 no limit # of matrices
50x50 80x80 size of matrices

Calculus
X inflection

Science
X physical constants
X SI/English conversions

Finance
X via WWW Finance Application

Other
X custom menus
X electronic upgradability

Note: these are only the differences between the TI-83+S and the TI-86. Things that both calculators had or neither calculator had were not included. The TI-83+S has not yet been added to the TI Graphing Calculator Comparison Chart, so I used the TI-83+ values and changed what I know of the upgrades made in the TI-83+S, such as the ROM that currently has enough space for three or four of every TI-83+ Flash App in existence. I did not mention the Silver Case, but that is one difference. I made this chart without the help of HTML tags (TICalc doesn't allow them, which is understandable), so if it doesn't turn out okay don't bite my head off. Just go to http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/gmtrx.htm for the complete comparison.

* This confused me at first, but with assembly programs you can add user-defined functions to the 86-OS. If you want verification of that particular result, go to http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/gmtrx.htm.

You put x's down for the 83+SE for statistics, well if you cared to look brainiac it has both and infact they are built in and you dont have to waste the memory to have them.. 86 got thoes two features added, cause everyone loved them on the 83, ive owned/own a 82,82,83+,85,86,and 92 so i know the features pretty well (btw i currently own 83+,96,92)

Personaly i prefer the 92.. i like it when people look at it and say what the hell is that.. and it has some nice features that i find real useful in trig, but during my tests i find the 83+ very useful, cause im just used to it, i have most of the menus memorised, i believe the 83+SE is for people who are used to that series like me, hell i got my 92 not long ago (clearence at target for 40 dollars) and i have alot of problems with the stuff on that cause im not used to it, most people arnt willing to learn a new system, even if it is better, and many teachers dont even allow higher calulators to be used on tests, so i think this is a good alternative for people like that, dont bash it cause your 89 is better, we already know that, we already know that the 86 is better in some ways and the 83+se is better in others, so dont point it out thats getting tiring seeing everyone scream about how crappy this calc is, and for heavens sake pls stop asking for 86 pluses thats just as anonying as saying port this to the 86 or the 89 or that crap, ti makes money on the 83+se then good for them, if they dont too bad, you can tell them what you want but whats the use of bitching to the rest of the ti comunity on how crappy this new calulator is, when youvee have probably never used an 83 series calc for any length of time.. okie im done rambling

CLEARANCE AT TARGET FOR $40 !?!?!?!?!?! DAMN
I gotta look more carefully at those ends of the isles that have all the bargin crap on them.

I have a friend that works at target, he put it behind the counter and told me about it so i went and asked if they were holding a 92 for me... he put my name on it and i got it... it was the display model that everyone used to see if they wanted the calc, before they bought it, it had no packaging, no link coord, and no book.. lol also no warrenty but it works just fine so im happy

also note that the 83+ and the 86 can both recover memory after a reset. . This is true even though the 86 does not have flash mem. . you can still do it. Kirk Myer I believe is the author for CHASM. check it out if you've never heard of it. But the 83+ mem recovery is built in (when u save it in Flash 'archiving it')

And the TI-89 is vastly superior to them both! So ha!

86 beats 83+ feature wise.
83+ beats 86 memory wise.
You choose whats more important...
(I personaly picked features.)


As for the silver edition of the 83+, if it costs more its very lame. Why would I pay more for I calculator that I would just smash under 150 pounds of books?

damn. i thought that one of those posts didn't send...

I think the TI-83 Plus and SE outdo the 86 in all factors. The TI-83 Plus and SE have more features because of thier application capabilities.

--NATE

I don't have any experience with the TI-86 or 89, I only have an 83 Plus. I think the Silver Edition is a good idea for people like me who know how to use the 83 Plus and want to go just one step further. I would rather buy another 83 Plus, than buy an advanced calculator that I couldn't figure out.

Plus, who gives a hoot about how fast the processor is? It's a small diff, and most people probably wouldn't even notice it unless they read a features list.

You don't all have to agree with me, but this where I stand on the topic.

I used to own an 83+, and currently own an 86 and an 89. Out of the 3, the 83+ has the least features, and the most annoying method of accessing them (crappy menu system). And you say the 83+S can make up for it's deficiencies with flash apps. Well, how much more do those cost? Just 1 of the non-free ones will get you over the price of an 86, and even all the free ones and a couple expensive ones added together won't surpass the 86, let alone the 89. And if you want more memory in an 86... Get an expander (it's at an independant web site, but I don't have time to look for it). It's just as good as 83+ archive memory, and offers more space. 89 doesn't have an archive problem, since you can run from archive much better in the 89.

NATE is stupid!

.......... O ............ yay ............... 24k ram. That is like an unfixable version of the 24k asm limit for the 89, only worse. Only 24 of stuff can be running at any given time. So much for a conversion of megacar.

Archive essentially doesn't help you if you can't run anything from it. That's what I see from the TI-83 plus, so I assume it'll be there in the SE too.

While I own an 89 and am proud of its 68k architecture there is something to be said for the whole 83 family. "SDK" While there may not be comprehensive SDK for everything. The fact that it exists from TI is a big bonus. I think that this shows that TI is standing behind its 83 family. This means they will be around for a while. So even if the Ti-83 plus SE is not as good as the 89 in areas the support is cool.

(wishing this level of support existed for the TI-89.) Oh well I guess Ti-Gcc works almost as well.

How about no, sure the TI 83+SE looks catchy to most of you but everyone knows that the cover dont make a diff. but the memory and capabilities sure do !!! They have to definetly work on the colored keys. But also the TI-89 is not the most superior calculator out there, it's defenately the TI-86

Okay, you 83-loving <censored>: this thing looks totally UGLY, and I think that many people will agree with me. And yes, it has much memory, but what are you gonna do with it? Fill it with TI's crappy Flash apps? Fill it with bad ports of 82,85 and 86 games? The 83s standard memory is more than enough to store the few cool and original 83 games. And even if you put all that crap in the memory, you still won't use it all. As a matter of fact, my 86 has enough memory to put everything I want on it and I still have 20KB left. So there. As for the higher speeds, this only means that most 83(+) programs won't work anymore. And FYI: all Z80-based TI calcs can easily be overclocked to 24MHz. However, this causes many problems (asm problems not working correctly unable to link), so most people wo do this add a turbo switch. I can only assume that this Silver Edition will have the same problems and no turbo switch. There. Advantages gone.

How could one "fill it with TI's crappy Flash apps" if it was "unable to link" ? I can't think of many ways of getting apps on the calc without a link.
I believe that you can simply change the interrupts in a program to slow it down so that programs will run at the correct speed.
Lastly, TI claims that "Current TI-83 Plus APPS, programs, and keystrokes are compatible.", so unless they are lying, the old programs will work correctly.

BTW- I do agree with you about the color, though.

well, let's think about this.

Our mutual friends at TI, without even a thought of telling anybody, modifies the 89 to re-address its flash memory and to operate 2MHz faster. What happened? That's right, you needed to patch or re-write any and all ASM programs to operate on the new 'HW2' calculator.

Now, how do you expect the 83SE to address 1.5MB of memory with the same platform that was built to use only 184k? The majority of ASM programs are written with lower-level memory access, and that would be the very first thing affected by even the slightest change in architecture. Would there be another unpublished limit (as on the 89) which would apply not to apps but to asm programs? Would the shells we universally rely on be a match close enough to be ported, or would we need to rewrite them from scratch?

There are still far too many potential issues which could serve to further alienate this community from the corporate yahoos at TI. Sure, I may be able to simultaneously graph 4 functions in a matter of seconds, but it will still show up on that same crappy LCD. As for the shiny shellacking on the cover, it will make a nice vanity mirror before it chios away...

What do you mean "advantages gone"?
If you didn't finish reading the stuff at TI's site, it
comes LOADED with applications by ti (so you don't have
to buy them later). Then, also, myself being an ASM
programmer, as long as the bcall() functions are the same
then you can just add an interrupt handler that idles for
9 MHz and slows it down appropriately. Let me also
remind you that the regular 83+ is an 8 MHz processor
downclocked to 6 MHz. Yes, I agree that its ugly, but
for the features that it comes with for the small
incrimental cost of about $30, it is well worth it.
I mean, with 1.5 MB of ROM, you could almost hold every
file available for the TI83+ on ticalc.org with room
left to spare! :)

That is assuming TI is telling the truth this time,
because they also claimed "compatability" between
the 83 and 83+ and we all know that's not true :)

So its a gamble, whether its a good buy or not, but I'm
definitely getting one at least for just a programming
platform so i can program for everybody else that has
one.

Okay, I DO agree with you on some points.

But, as you said with all that free memory, you said that people wouldn't have anything to do with all of it.

I think the same is true of the processor. What is anybody going to do with a processor that is a little bit faster? I don't know, maybe it DOES make a drastic difference. But it seems to me that if you feel that way about the memory, then it's all right to feel that way about the processor.

And, yes, it is sortof ugly.

I agree. As for that archive space, I really need it. On my TI-83+ I have 4 apps and a lot of archived games, I have to "Garbage Collect" every time I run a program. It gets very annoying. I'm definitely going to buy it.

The 83 silver edition says only one thing about the war between the 83 and the 86, TI is on the 83's side. To that end they created a supped up calculator that is still sorely lacking in advanced math functions and user interface. Out of the box, an 83 has only two relevent MATH features that the 86 doesn't, sequence graphing (which can be easily replicated using programs) and advanced statistics (which are available in asm version from ti's website). I can't possiblely list all of the useful MATH features that are missing on the 83, but I'll give you an idea: numeric differential equation graphing, eigenvalues / vectors, simultaneous equation solver, number base conversions, units conversions, numbers > 9e99, and more. Furthermore, the 83 has the dumbest menu system ever. If you want to access something buried in a menu, you have to cover up everything your working on. In the 86, you can bring up to rows of menu items and keep on seeing what you are working on. Besides that convenience, if you are going to be using the same item several times in the same expression, then you save key strokes because you only have to hit one menu button to insert it (this has great advantages when inputing ti-basic scripts). The menu system is just the most blatant problem with the 83's UI. TI also thought that it would be nice to hide all lower case letters and other special characters (how hard is it to implement a 'char' menu?). Additionally, there is no custom menu for users to place their favorite commands. Clearly the dumbest thing that TI ever did was to strip out all of the wonderful advances that they had made in the 85 and go back to the limited UI design of the 81 when they built the 82 (which the 83 only mildly improves upon). This error of judgement was only compounded when TI to the step to push the 82 (and now 83) as a userfriendly choice for highschools (TI's biggest market). As a result, ignorant teachers took the advice of ignorant marketers and recommended an inferior product with inferior userfriendliness (stupid menus). So of course all of those parents, not doubting the teacher's recommendation, bought the 82/83. I'm very passionate about this because that very effect caused my mom to buy an 82 (against my protests) all those years ago. So, in the end, TI's pushing of the 82/83 became a self-fulling prophecy and their most succesful calculator. So with the blessing of duped educators, TI continues to improve the hardware of a vastly inferior calculator design while leaving the 86 alone (they still haven't given us flash!). The fact that people still use the 86 so much even though TI has left it in the mud shows how well designed and useful (even beyond highschool math) it really is compared to the 83. TI seems to have forgotten that it takes more than mHz and marketing to make a good calculator. Luckily, many people in the TI community haven't. (I appologize for the length of this post, but it had to be said)