Survey posted 2006-05-17 01:12 by Jon.

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First post!
I program in BASIC during math class because I am not allowed to use my laptop, but otherwise I use C.

it's all about xLIB and hand-drawn graphics XD

Yeah it is B)
xLib is teh bummer!

I personally like the use of Asm-utilities with Basic.
Easy and safe (basic) + fast and furious (Asm)
That's the key to fast developed good ames :)
(Ok, you also need a hell lotta time XD)

"Easy and safe (basic) + fast and furious (Asm)"-->>Uh...you mean by combining the "speed" of BASIC with the reliable "stability" of ASM? Oh, and nothing is fast on the z80 calcs. :)

"That's the key to fast developed good [g]ames :)"
*cough*Phoenix*cough*

He's right. The expression "A chain is as strong as its weakest link" could be applied to this situation. Xlib may provide qucik (strong) Asm routines but despite this, BASIC is still slow (weakest link).

I would rephrase it into

"BASIC+xLIB is the key for developping fast enough games on z80 calcs without programming ASM"

that apply to right now tho, imagine if someone wrote a good C compiler for z80 calcs ^^

Such a compiler does exist, called "C-Compiler for z80-calculators". It utilizes SDCC, a small device C compiler.

However, I would direct your attention to BZC instead (see link). Of course, I'm somewhat biased as one of the developers of this project, but I think that BASIC ASM (the new language we invented) is the way to go...

yeah i saw your comment below, sound nice, i hope it doesnt crash too much tho :P I would like to try this someday for making non rpg games

Yes, its all about the 4-color Graphics being drawn on the computer than placed into C or GNU Asm Data Files :D

where's the option for "I would if I could"

Why wouldn't you be able to?

I generally use ASM for graphical programs. After all, you really can't make nearly as good graphical programs in BASIC as you can with ASM. And before anyone points out XLib XLib Revolution or something of the like, I would like to point out that they use ASM libraries!

pure basic owns all y'all.

(see link)

you may not be able to make graphics quite as fast, but you can make them just as good.

Nice graphics, but playability goes down the drain with a frame-rate like that.

although if you can't tell what you're doing, you can't play at all...

Frog RPG does have very nice pure BASIC graphics. In a game like Frog RPG, speed isn't as important since you scroll the map, the frog fights are turn based, and the minigames are of a respectable speed for BASIC. Now if this was something like a shooter or some other type of action game, speed would be a bigger problem.

I was getting 2 FPS in pure Basic with a graphical scrolling map....

that is playable.

shameless advert! this deserves deleting ;P

Not really, he's just telling about his experiences with the program, even if it's his own.

Well, what about row 63 and column 95? Pure ASM owns pure TI-BASIC on that score, at least...

I'd hope you didn't forget xLIB here, with the real(12 command I can put something anywhere, and if I am in a program and turn the run indicator off then I also have those 7 or 8 pixels

True, but doesn't pure TI-BASIC denote exactly that-just TI-BASIC? No ASM libraries or anything like that?

I dont think it matters what do you use in your games providing they are good and playable. Sometimes speed isnt an issue, sometime it is. You can do good stuff in BASIC, even without asm libs, just not Gemini or Wolfeinstein (well I think...)

down with basic vs asm debate, they ruin the community and make nice coders leave

>down with basic vs asm debate, they ruin the community
>and make nice coders leave

How true. Why can't people just once and for all just judge programs by how good they are, not the language used?

That said, I think this is more of a friendly debate than an argument about which is superior.

You can't make them just as good when it comes to greyscale. Pure BASIC can't do that.

Sure, the graphics are great, but look how many seperate programs it took to get the game running. In addition, the size of the programs are ENORMOUS! You could make that exact game 10x faster and smoother with 1/4 of the size in 1 single program in Z80 Assembly. TI-BASIC does exert some advantages, however, such as mathematical computations. But as far as games go, ASM is hands down the most efficient way to go.

True but asm is much harder, it require much more time to learn it before understanding it. I know ppl will tell me that it isnt that hard but its because those people learn much faster than anyone else and have more computer experience sometimes, some ppl just cant do it so they have to stick with language like BASIC, which is the only thing avaliable besides asm on some calcs

I dont think it matter how many files it take to run a basic game, providing the game is good, considering the TI-83+ has like 160 KB of archive memory and the SE 1.5 MB (more than a floppy)

if it matters I guess I'll just get all my author profile deleted from ticalc.org as most stuff I did was big RPGs and huge games :P

ok let me get one thing straight

ti-basic is INTERPRETED by asm in the OS. Therefore, ANYTHING you can do in basic, can be done with asm, and done faster and more efficiantly, so there

you're wrong. no "and" or "or" statements can go with an if statement in asm. well...it'd be like this in basic

While 1
if X=3:then
goto 1
end
end

lbl 1
if Y=4:then
goto 2
end
end

indirect "and" statements can be made in asm, but it's nothing like basic at all. basic has more features than it is credited for

correction:
lbl 1
while 1
if Y=4:then
goto 2
end
end

Quote: ti-basic is INTERPRETED by asm in the OS. Therefore, ANYTHING you can do in basic, can be done with asm

..that includes If:Then statements.. behind that BASIC, there is ASM coding to make it work, so therefore, you can do if statements in asm..

I think you're missing the point. You can easily write code to perform the function of 'if X and Y' or 'if X or Y' in assembly (believe me, I know), and it's much more efficient than an IF statement written in BASIC. I'm not saying that no one should use BASIC or anything, just that assembly *is* more efficient.

Well, in ASM, that code would be:

loop_1:
CP 3
JP Z, loop_2
JP loop_1

loop_2
LD A, B
CP 4
JP NZ, loop_2

(if X is equated to reg A and Y is equated to reg B)
This code would take 12 bytes (I believe), and would execute blazingly fast (never mind the fact that the first loop would be run for eternity unless A is set to 3 before the loop...).

loop_1:
CP 3
JR Z, loop_2
JR loop_1

loop_2
LD A, B
CP 4
JR NZ, loop_2

:D I just saved you 3 bytes!

That loop_2 should have a colon after it BTW...

Even better...

loop_1:
CP 3
JR NZ, loop_1

loop_2
LD A, B
CP 4
JR NZ, loop_2