Survey posted 2004-02-09 21:45 by Morgan.

Contribute ideas to surveys by sending a mail to survey@ticalc.org.

Hey, Morgan, can you put a poll up for me? Here it is: Why are airplanes the most important invention in the 20th century? Respond with 8-10 pages including 9-13 cited sources...lol j/k...that's my English paper this quarter...on topic now, I voted for the 86 because:
1) The menu system may stink, but the CUSTOM menu rocks because you hardly have any keypresses for commonly used functions.
2) On the 83+, if you want to use a function (i.e. the cube root function) you have to go through menus that cover the screen, but on the 86 you can just type [3][r][t]...much simpler.
3) The 86 has WAY more symbolic solving, which is way easier than using a graph to find intercepts, etc.
4) The 86's screen is bigger (pixel-wise).

I believe that the 84 might be better when it comes out, but it's not out, so I can't say...

oops...I forgot...those sources have to be cited in MLA format...thanks

WTF!!!??? Because they aren't ofcourse. Computers were invented in the 20th century, weren't they? Don't exspect a modern airliner to fly without a computer!
Who came up with that rediculous idea? :D

I actually chose that topic...the assignment was to pick ANYTHING in the past 100 years, but I couldn't pick computers because "they're too recent"...lol...doesn't that put them in the past 100 years?!?!?

Actually, computers wouldn't be allowed for your essay. But your teacher is totally wrong - that's not because they are too new (well, you could argue with them about that, for sure), but because they're TOO OLD. What is often called the first computer, Charles Babbage constructed the "Analytical engine" already in 1830 (!!!). However, the device was far too complicated to actually be manufactured at a reasonable cost (Babbage got ruined trying to).
Of course Babbage is very often considered to be born a hundred years too early. ;-)

*freaks out* EIGHT TO TEN PAGES!?!?!? NINE TO THIRTEEN SOURCES? I seriously hope your joking... but I have a feeling that you're not. I would die. Are you in super honors honors extra hard english? That makes the assignments that I complain about look easy...

Senior in High School, and this is ENG102 at a Community COllege I go to...and I have 3 more papers like it this semester. I'm actually writing this post from in my class right now...I hope the teacher never figures out that none of us actually WORK on our assignments in class time :) BTW...this assignment is SMALL compared to most...my brother had 8 papers in one semester averaging 12 pages each and ALL on cloning...he totally exhausted that topic

the 86 is good and the 83+ is good. Each has its advantages and disadvantages, so they equal out. To me it's a matter of personal preference. So all of you could be arguing till the cows come home.

That's what makes such arguements fun...

(SEE: Emacs vs. VI, Linux vs. BSD, Gnome vs. KDE)

Windows vs. Linux ;-)

h00ray for wind0wz!!! Windows r0x0rz j00r b0x0rz. It is 1337. *runs away again* (I'm getting a lot of exercise!)

wotuon?

BTW, Linux 5uxx0rz ;-)

Use UNIX....

Maybe Ill get those Spark4's lying around in my house and boot them up...

But it's still fun, to some extent, to pursue a pointless argument.

Yay! Cows! Quick, come home so we can stop fighting!

New debate: TI-81 vs. TI-89. :-D Of course, I'd bet you anything some hard core TI-81 users would come in here and flame all of us to death.

That would be an easy argument. :-)

TI81's are good to burn :)

But I won't get back to that...

Here's my list of reasons why the 86 is better than the 83+, and deserves more attention from TI:
Please read the WHOLE THING before responding.

BUILT-IN FEATURES

The 86 can perform many vector operations, which makes working with polar coordinate systems very easy. The conversions between rectangular and polar vectors are especially useful.

The 86 can draw graph lines in many different thicknesses, which makes separate lines that are close to each other easy to distinguish.

The 86 can solve polynomials and systems of multiple equations.

The 86 can edit and store equations for use in the equation solver, unlike the 83+, where the equation in the solver can't be recalled, and must be erased if a new equation is being entered.

The 86 has many calculus functions which the 83+ doesn't.

The 83+ has a better way of displaying complex numbers, but the 86 is better at working with them-entering "(sqrt)-1" on the 83+ results in an error, but on the 86 returns "(0,1)", which represents i.

Continued:

Variables on the 86 can be given any name, as long as there are no duplicates-unlike with the 83+, matrices, lists, GDBs, strings, and pics don't have predefined names, and names of real vars aren't restricted to one letter.

The 86 can do unit conversions, and comes with predefined constants, which are both EXTREMELY useful in physics.

The 86 can work with numbers in octal, hexadecimal, and binary, as well as decimal, and convert between those bases, which is especially useful for assembly programmers.

The 83+ has the ability to group files on-calc, which the 86 doesn't, but with no flash, there's absolutely no use for on-calc file grouping on the 86.

The 86 has a custom menu (the entries are defined by the user) accessible from the homescreen, which is very useful for being able to get quickly to functions frequently needed by the user that otherwise take time to insert (such as "Asm(", the names of frequently used programs, the ">Frac" command, etc.).

MEMORY

The 83+ has more memory total, but much less RAM. If you use a shell on your 83+, programs can be run from flash, but it's much slower. Apps take up way too much of the archive and can quickly fill it up. Also, most game levels and files generated by text editors still have to kept in RAM. Some programs also need significant portions the RAM for buffers and other temporary uses. Besides, by the time you've downloaded TI's apps to add some of the features of the 86, such as vector operations and polynomial solving, it has almost the same amount of free memory as the 86, and they still are harder to use than the integrated ones on the 86! The OS can't be upgraded on the 86, unlike with the 83+, BUT IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE UPGRADED!!! So altogether, I would say that the 83+ *would* have an advantage in memory if it had more RAM, but as things are, it's about evenly matched...

Continued yet again:

PROGRAMMING

BASIC programming is mostly the same...the 86 doesn't have the "expr(" command, the programs have to tokenize, and they're a bit slower when running, but the last two result from the use of typable tokens, which means that a function can be entered directly, instead of being selected from a menu. This can really help when inserting a function from the catalog (on the 83+, your place in the catalog isn't saved-on the 86, it is), when inserting any function from a menu multiple times, or when running programs with short names from the homescreen. The 83+ also doesn't have the undelete buffer (sort of like the clipboard) or the "page up" and "page down" menu options, which can be very helpful when working with large BASIC programs.

Continued:

Assembly programming is definitely easier on the 86. For one thing, the display is memory-mapped, which makes graphics (and especially high-quality grayscale) infinitely easier. Also, the 86's OS has the (sqrt) programs, which allows many additional functions to be added, while appearing as part of the OS, for very internal things such as adding new BASIC commands or changing homescreen format. You don't have to include special headers and descriptions for the shells that you're developing for, which means that the user doesn't have to have a specific shell to run your program (making things easier for the user). If you make a nostub program on the 83+, it's harder to run, first because "Asm(" takes 9 keypresses to insert, as opposed to 2 on the 86 (if you have it on your custom menu), and then because you have to select the program name from the program menu (you can't type it, even if it's just 1 char long!), which can be hard if you have a lot of programs. On the 86, you're not stuck with one interface-you can pick any shell you want, or even use none-it's harder to make an Ion or MirageOS-compatible shell, so there are much less of them, meaning less GUI choices. Being myself specific about my shell's UI, this is an important issue for me.

Continued:

MENUS

OK, this is largely a matter of personal preference, so I'll just leave it alone...even though the 86 menus do have some real advantages, such as being able to see what you're graphing or typing while you make your selections, and being able to leave the menu open while typing so that a commonly used function can be inserted quickly...

VARIOUS EASE-OF-USE ISSUES

Both calcs have some advantages here. I like how theta, quotation marks, and list chars can easily be accessed on the 83+, but I like even more how you don't have to press 2nd on the 86 to exit a menu or get to the "EE" key, both of which I do frequently.

The 83+'s flat screen is nice, because it doesn't collect dust as much...

The major blow to the 83+ here is with how it deals with lowercase letters. First, you can't use lowercase letters at all unless you set a certain flag with a system utility. Even when you can insert lowercase letters, it's almost impossible to type long strings of them, and you can't use them in var names (actually, you can't use anything *but* uppercase letters or numbers in var names, unlike the 86, where you can insert almost anything, including greek chars, which you can't even get to on the 83+). Not being able to use lowercase letters may seem like a small issue, but it's really a shock to discover that you can't after using them most of the time on an 86.

And now the end:

The 86's screen has more pixels (I'm not sure about the resolution). I can't really tell the difference in games, but it can definitely be noticed on the homescreen and graph screen. It also makes it harder for me, and probably other programmers (assembly and BASIC) to fit all the necessary graphics and text in the reduced width of the screen.

CONCLUSION

This doesn't mean that I don't like the 83+ -I just think the 86 is much better. The 83+ is priced lower than the 86, as a sort of value calc, and TI should be giving all the support to the higher-end 86 (which on TI's homepage is hard to find, and has hardly any assembly programming info, unlike with the 83+!!!) instead.

Thank you to whoever posted this survey for giving me a chance to post this!!! I'm really sorry that this comment is so long...

LAST MINUTE ADDITION:

The crash-proof nature of the flash really doesn't help much, because my 86 almost NEVER crashes, except when I'm testing one of my programs, or testing a program I've downloaded, and in both cases, anyone with any sense makes a backup first. As long as you make periodic backups, you're fine.

OK, never mind about the "read the whole thing before responding".