yeah, that's right, all i'm doing is saying thank you. the majority of the people responding to the original article have been polite, "kindly" presenting their opinions. thank you, that is important. perhaps their's more respect out there than usually thought, huh?

a bit of advice to anyone that feels like making a "rude" comment: people will simply blow you off as an idiot. so there's no use in being rude, flamish, or the like. give your views, don't let off steam.

thank you for your moment.

-KAKE

Yes...we need to be more polite. Name calling (while fun in a sophomoric way) will not do anything to improve the TI community. If you have a point to make, just make it and don't attack everyone with an opposing viewpoint. Let's be cival, people!!!

I think that you are completly right about the rewriting games one after another. I do really know if I would call it a lack of respect though, maybe more of lack of creativity.
I think that someone should start a page where he reviews games and puts the games he reviewed in catergories. 1 part should be the original game, the first one out or announced. The 2nd part should be the best one possible, then the 3rd could be all the others. This is just a thought so don't write me anything nasty or something stupid like that.

Very true...

If you don't want to think up your own game then that's too bad. But I don't think of taking an idea disrespect. As stated, it is a lack of creativity. Taking code is (maybe) disrespect, but not ideas.

Just relax and write the game like you normally would. It won't hurt if someone else writes one too.

I completely agree. I happen to know that many programmers treat each other like crap and this should be stopped if we want to produce some real quality stuff. This is ONE of the reasons why I quit programming for the calculators.

You're crazy. What's wrong if somebody else can make a better mario goes ahead and does so? Should Netscape and Microsoft have never made browsers just because Mosaic came first? Why are there so many word processors? So if I claim I'm going to make a zelda, mario, mortal kombat and every other game in the world, everbody else is supposed to stop in their tracks and let me monopolize the gaming market? Out of "respect"? HAHAHAHA!!!

So what you're saying is that we should all stop making Mario games becuase YOU want to? Not a chance! Anyone in the world can do whatever they please, and if they want to make the same game as you, then that's great. Let them. Just because you had an idea doesn't mean that you are the sole owner of that idea.

I was writing a FF7/AD&D game for the 85. No problem. When someone else in my school decided that they wanted to write a similar game (after I said I was making one), I DIDN'T CARE!!! It's just a program. It's not like I was getting paid for it. There is no reason that MBCook should complain. Life is too short to worry about minor things like game copying. Just write it and don't worry about what other people do. If they play it and decide it sucks, too bad. Get on with your life.

--JB

People SHOULD make different versions of a game so one can see which is best on their calculator. Look at sqrxz and mario86. People have their preferences and both are great games. Creating a one-program-per-type of game rule only stifles the programmer's creativity. What are we competing for, anyway? Money? BAH! We're competing for interenet recognition and that's where it stops. I think people should just make the programs and enjoy it.

--blue

I have but one thing to say: I think that this 'lack of respect' on the author's part is really his insecurities on his own code. I am only 14, but I can safely say that if I announced a new Mario game (which there are already many out there) and others saw this announcement and thought 'yeah, I think it would be cool to write a Mario program' I would say let the best Mario game creep itself into everyone's calculator. And if mine wasn't the best, I'd just go ahead and write another program, an even better one. I would respect the other author's programming abilities and hope that one day I too could reach that level of expertese. I am starting out as an ASM programmer, and I have a lot to learn, but that doesn't mean I sould whine to the programming community if someone takes my idea. I would not stoop to that low. That to me doesn't seem like looking for respect, that looks like looking for pity, and that to me is a crime.

True; that's what they call "survival of the fittest". I bet the verson of TETRIS that completely wrecked (Thankfully the warranty was still in effect -- I was able to upgrade to a 89!! 8-) )my 83 won't be found anywhere else.

Seriously, you've got a point. Programming for calculators is in a different ballpark than programming for computers (to put it in the words of Vincent Vega, it's not even the same sport.) By this, I mean that there is no money recieved for this sort of programming. Every program that is written has one purpose: To better the TI community. If someone writes a bad Mario game (in keeping with the analogy) it won't last long. It is the true classics that prevail in the TI world.

Nathan B. Taylor

I disagree with this artical. When I'm at school and have nothing to do, I program (sometimes). I like to try to figure things out; how to do things. I make games that use these things. Most of these games have already been made. I make them just to see if I can. Then I might release them. What you are saying is that I shouldn't do this because somebody before me has already. Who cares. What you are also saying is that I can't do that because somebody thought of the idea before I did. I can't make a game that somebody else has because they had more free time or something? I don't like you idea at all. This was not thought out at all.

Dan

Since the game I am writing seems to be one of the projects targeted by this article, I thought I'd respond appropriately with some thoughts.

The author writes, "I decided to make a Mario game for it. As soon as it was announced, about 4 more were. But all of these other Marios that are being made put me in direct competition. I think that this is just rude."

I don't believe this statement reflects the whole truth. To my knowledge Mr. Cook's project was first announced here on ticalc.org on October 3rd when he started a title screen contest (Check the Past News Items). So what are the other four games you're talking about? I know of only three other "Mario-like" projects for the TI-89: Mario 92, Klaus Lukaschek's TI Mario World, and my game. Since everyone knows Mario 92, I won't bother with that one. As for TI Mario World, a PUD was posted on Jimmy Monin's site <http://start.at/Home92> on August 23rd, over a month before the author's announcment on ticalc.org. Granted there's no mention of an 89 version there, but the author said himself that a port is not a lack of respect. As for my game, I started writing my side-scrolling engine well over a year ago. However, it was too slow on the TI-92, so I gave up on it. When I got my 92+ module this summer I started on it again, and eventually I decided to make it into a Mario clone. I made this decision well before I had heard of the author's project. There were no announcments about my game until I released a demo on October 31, 1998, and at the time it was only for the 92+. Originally I had no plans to release an 89 version; the TI-89 compatibility was added as an afterthought. So back to the author's statement. I believe I've shown that all of these projects were started before the author's announcment. My question is, how has anyone been rude or disrespectful? Is it rude for me to continue working on a Mario clone that I started over a year ago, just because someone else announces that they are creating a game called Mario 89? And is it rude for me to adapt my program to run on an 89, because it would put too much pressure on another TI-89 programmer who is already working on a Mario-style game? In fact, it seems that all three TI-89 Mario projects I mentioned above were previously announced for the 92+. Later on the author says, "As soon an someone makes a game or announces it, 5 other people rush to beat them." Is that supposed to apply to the case at hand? If so, does the author truly believe that his announcment directly caused four other people to start working on their own projects, just so he would be in "direct competition?" That doesn't make any sense to me.

So please, can someone point out just one specific instance of disrespect with regard to this entire matter?

"We don't kneed 5 different Mario games"

Well, that depends. On the NES there were 3, SNES had 2, and 1 on N64. They are all Mario games, yet they're very different from each other. Is it really bad to have 5 Mario's if they are all unique, quality games? Which leads me to my next point...

The author writes, "...when there are 5 games called Nibbles and only 1 is good it makes it an annoyance to find out which one it is."

I don't see how this relates to the Mario situation. Only two "Mario" games that I know of have been released for the 89, and anyone who has played them knows that they are very different (and have different names for that matter). Also, take a look at the screen shots of Klaus' upcoming game and you'll notice that it seems to be modeled after Mario Land 2 for GB. What I see are three very different projects. What's the problem with that?

"But when there are 7 just like the Nintendo one that's a problem."

Does the author anticipate this to be a problem? :)

If I've been rude or disrespectful to anyone with regards to this matter, I'm sorry, and it was not intentional. I don't believe I've dissed anyone, but if Mr. Cook, or anyone else, disagrees with me I'll gladly discuss it. And if I've misinterpreted any of your statements Mr. Cook, please correct me.

Geez, your reply is almost as long as his article. Are you(Donald Barnes) going to make that RPG for the 82 or is that project dead?

Ummm... that project is dead :)

I agree wholeheartedly. A healthy variety is a good thing. I love Mario, and I lov Mario games. When I get an 89, I look forward to having an abundance of Mario. What's respect got to do with it. A fair amount of competition only pushes each programmer to do a better job. What would everyday things be like without that competition that pushes each developer produce a better web-browser, or each poultry company to make a better roast chicken, or each televison conglomerate to produce a better "Worlds[insert superlative here]..." It's all good. You see, I like web-browsing, I like roast chicken, I hoot and hollar when I see a big-rig flip at 100mph and land on a Pinto, and I sure-as-hell like seing the many pixel's of Mario jump across that LCD. So far each of those tiny Mario's look very different. If you are fed up with all those Mario games, then just make it a Wario game.
Peace, love, and brotherhood.

Anyone else notice that almost every flame is written by either a blank space or an alias? Why should anyone listen to a person too cowardly to write their true name/email addr?

because they want their opinions to be heard, but also don't want to cause grudges. Grudges lead to more flames and to *disrespect*. The flames would be much more intense if people put their own names, and this way you have people voice their minds without fear of causing any real trouble ... though you would think flames trivial, there are always little things that propagate them. Cook is much better off not knowing who his flamers are, for his own sake and for the sake of the ti community.

Don't be such a stoic and think about what the most intelligent things are to do; calling someone a coward because they keep their identity secret is obtuse, and certainly no grounds to discount what they say.

Normally, I would agree with you, but when the threads leave on-topic discussion about agreeing/disagreeing with the article to blatantly insulting the author's programming ability and ONE spelling error, then they are opinions not worth reading. Now for example, if Bill Nagel or Jimmy Mardell said "Cook doesn't know shit about programming", then they at least have the programming skill to back up their words. Of course, neither would be dumb enough to say something as asinine as that. When a blank space says "Cook can't code for shit", odds are the blank space can't code any better than Cook. The majority of ASM programmers(myself included) still have a LOT to learn about programming. Someone already mentioned such newbie-hating in a Linux thread. It's very ironic that this article is about respect, but no one writing threads is displaying any.

I do not think Cook's article is correct, and I think his request for a title screen while the program was not even 3/4 done was in very poor taste. However, flames are wastes of space.


Read the ticalc.org disclaimer:
"Constructive and relevant comments only; no flames. Thanks for your (intelligent) contributions"

Cook can't code for shit.

But that's not important right now ... we've got to land this plane!

I agree with Kirk Meyer's above, or perhaps below..., statement that very often programmers treat each other like crap. But I also agree with the above statement that it is very easy to get help from other programmers in the community. These people complaining about Mr. Cook being stupid or lame are just whining about how they can't write a decent game to save their grandmothers. I think we should get off Cook's back and get back to programming our games.

But that is not what I am here to write about. The TCPA (TI Calculator Programming Alliance) is an obvious solution to the problem of disrespect of people's hard efforts. Sure, it is great to have many of the same game, but the authors should know that they are responsible for updates and bugfixes. If the programmers of the TI community were to communicate freely and openly about what needs to happen, and what needs to stop, without the criticism seen here, perhaps many things could be done.

We must get out of this deadlock.

-Patrick "Sky" Gray

"No, I haven't authored a game yet, but..."

It's not rude, its called competition. Look at the rest of the world:Some company comes out with a cool new item, like roller blades, then about 20 new companies come along and copy it. What makes you think there should be a difference in the TI community? Competition is healthy for us. If you make a game like mario, and 5 other people make the same game after you, then you should work harder at improving the game, so you can compete with the other people. I'm not saying that copying programs is good, it is always better to come up with an original idea. If you lack the creativity to come up with your own idea for a game, then you probably will lack the creativity to be inovative and add new features that the competition doesn't yet have. So like your mario game, you probably have nothing to worry about because these people don't have enough creativity to compete with you. Maybe at first they will be able to, but after you add a few new features, they will probably give up trying to compete because they are too lazy or aren't creative enough.