Some of what you are saying is probably true, but I must say that I don't share the same opinion. Sometimes programmers do make games just to be in competition with others, but many people only want to provide what they think is a good version of a program. Oftentimes, a programmer won't even realize (s)he's made a duplicate game until it is near completion. Also, I don't have any problems with several different makes of the same game. Depending on what the program is, sometimes it is good to have a variety of different versions, because different people may like different versions better. There may be some enmity between programmers, and that is not good, but for the most part I think it is either just friendly competition, or that someone had a different idea about how a game should be. Also, many programmers rewrite classic games such as Tetris not as competition, but just to develop their programming skills. But that's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

I agree with "The Notorious Computerman" I write programs just to write them. I don't care if anybody else has made them or not. I just try to test my programing skills when I program. I don't try to better the other peoples programs, I just try to program what ever I can. I don't make programs for myself, or anybody. Usually after I make a program I will never use it. I just make sure it works and go on to a new project. I have to admit I like the challenge of programming and not the compitition in it.

Yes...I agree. I'm just a lowly BASIC programmer who learned how from the TI manual and some free time. When I program, I don't do it to be published or to be recognized by the TI-gods (no disrespect...I do enjoy the games you make), I program just for the fun of it. For example, I translated DrugWar from a friend's 82 over to a 85, just cause I wanted to see if I could. Along the way, I found some inconsistencies in the interface of the two and had to completely rewrite large portions of the game. In the end, I had learned a lot about programming and made a far superior product. I know that DrugWar is nothing new and original to the TI community. That's why I've never bothered to post it. Probably, less than 10 people have ever played it. You could accuse me of copying and stealing code (btw...who originally wrote DrugWar?), but I didn't harm anyone. I just was having fun.

I think that some people need to remember that this is a no-profit market and programmers should program just for kicks. I've written many an original game just for personal use. Also, I think that many of the people who have voiced their opinion here clearly have shown little respect (kinda ironic considering the nature of this topic). Just play nice and remember....it's just a GAME!!!

I, too, am a humble BASIC programmer, for two reasons:

1: Many of the top programmers are going to the ASM realm, leaving BASIC in the dust.
2: I don't have sixty bucks to blow on a graphlink cable, or the ambition to get one for twenty. lol.

I program because I love to, as many do. I have no interest in publicity (ok that's not entirely true j/k).

All of my games I write (i have two posted and two I'm typing up/translating right now, I do both TI 82 and 85) are totally original, and I dake great offence when someone tries to dupe someone else's work. I must confess, I've plagiarised once or twice but I never released them publicly.

Oops. Misclicked.
Anyway, I want to finish off saying that this guy is right, it's just a game. So, play with honour.
Don't bother copying just to be a pain in the ass. That's stupid. Use your brains and think up a better game.

I apologise if I disrespected anyone, but if you're one of the copying people, I'm sorry, but you deserve it.

With honour,
cZaR

Macs can read PC TI files through the ti auto type
but does it work the other way around?

Why should it?

Go to the above adress order the TI pc\unit link for $4.50 not $60.00 (if you don't like getting the real thing too bad this way it offers tech support.)

I dont think that this is true because you need some competition, with more competition the better the games and or programs so even if you own a TI-89 like me I would also would like to make a game, if mine is worse I would try to make it better, it would help both the consumers or gamers and suppliers or programmers. But I would like to say that some people take other's code modify it to make it better and say its theirs, whuich is truly unfair.


Vadim

Okay, so say someone wants to make a totally new game, and he makes a totally bad version. Are you saying everyone should respect him and not try to make something better? If you get an idea from someone else's game and think of ways to improve it, you should go for it. It's not a matter of respect, it would be if the other person talks trash about the other game, but other than that, it's healthy competition.
Some guy made a new Percent Error program a few months ago, and I had already made one, but what if this person's was better than mine? Everyone who uses this program would benefit. And it also compels the other person to make a better version, which is again better for TI users.
(BTW-my version is better. j/k)

I think the problem MB Cook is talking about is different of what you are talking about. OK, I agree with the fact that it may be good to release a better version of a program already existing. But MB is saying that some peoples entered in competition with him when he had not even released his game ! So, I think those peoples should have waited until the game was released, because they can't know if their product will be better or not. Right now, they are just stealing onother's idea, without a good reason for doing this, and I think that we can indeed consider this as a lack of respect.

If you are dumb enough to tell everyone about your upcoming game and everything about it (and not have a copyright or something), and if someone thinks they can do a good job on a game like that, good for them. I think the author is just scared that someone else will make a game similar to his, but a lot better, so he labels it disrespect. I don't know about you, but I call that healthy competition.

Well, so long to Upcoming Projects at ticalc and PUDs at the files.

Amen.

It is not right to say that is disrespect. Nobody I know goes to PUD page and says "Ohh Goodie who's program name can I steal today!" Yeah right. If someone really did do that they must be a real looser. Just the otherday I thought of a program and I started making it, and I went to a PUD just to see what was new and all of a sudden I see a program just like mine with the same name. It's called the same idea. It just happen to come to both of us at the same time. Coincidence. I wouldn't doubt people do go to a PUD page and see a program and say that's a cool idea. Infact that is probaly the place people get most of their ideas, and why not, half the programs in PUD pages never will get finished. If you don't want your idea "stolen" then don't put it up on a PUD page.

Stay away from the PUD pages you program thugs give me my program name back!

It's also called independent invention.

i totally agree with the article. btw, very nicely written. (clap clap)

competition is good, but not just for competition's sake. you have to be willing to back up your program with support and updates. and it needs to be good in the first place. i'm in total agreement with the venerable author.

believe it or not, for 90% of people BASIC is about as hard as building a remote control car. really. i'm not one of them, but i agree that each has it's place.

Therefore, more than 90% of people believe that ASM is harder than building an RC car. (Unless they are as messed up as the wires on the back of my sucky Pentium 133)

Okay. So we need more respect. But if someone had an idea to make a program better why not work together with the one who made the original program?
This would give few but good programs.

We don't 'kneed' more Mario games? Interesting spelling. Anyway, it's a zero dollar market, so who's complaining. There are no market limitations set in place to guide the programming society. Only good code makes the difference (good ideas couldn't hurt either). A few months ago, I checked with the number of downloaded files on the ticalc statistics page, and mario is number 1 for many calcs, so it is only natural for people to instinctively choose that game. If one of those greatly copied games happens to be yours, then make it better than the others. And as for plagiarism, well, shouldn't you feel flattered?
-=Mark

The fact that people copy off of someone else's ideas shows that they have a lack of creativity so they probably won't make a better version because they haven't thought the game out throughly before they started since they wish to upstage the original programmer. If you really want to make a game like Mario that someone else is already making, you should at least discuss it with the original programmer. You might be able to work with the programmer on creating one better game or you could make two different kinds of the same game (Like Zelda 64, they made it like Mario 64 but they said that they could have made it like goldeneye and it would have been a completely different game). Two games are all right, as long as they have clear distinct differences and one wasn't a ripoff of the other.

Discuss it with the programer? So I'm sitting in math class, and I feel like making blackjack for TI-Basic. I'm supposed to forget about, go home, and then see if it's OK with other people who have published theirs that I make a similar program of my own? What kind of total BS is that? Almost everyone who writes articles like the origional and makes comments on them ar taking this stuff way to seriously. Remember: Calculators.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

If you decide to make a program in class like Blackjack then you're not "copying" or "stealing" the program and if you had one brain cell you'd recognize that "copying" programs is what the article is about. Not your sudden impulses to make fruit games like blackjack, but real classy games that take time to make like mario or zelda in ASM, which is beyond your level of understanding, instead of BASIC. Now if you want to make a blackjack program in BASIC go ahead, but the fact is that is has been done and so therefore no one cares if someone is programming another one. This article refers to good games in development, not petty card games that take you two class periods to make

You are a prime example of the REAL disrespect problem we are having. There is nothing wrong with writing different versions of the same games; in fact, as several people pointed out here, it's not as if MB Cook's idea was some new innovative creation. If you want to hear more of my opinion on that, however, you can check my comment at the top of the list ("In Response to Respect in the TI Community").

What our problem is is that people like you are taking TI programming far too seriously. As a result of this, whenever someone else wants to have fun, you guys have to tell us how we can do it. It's very similar to the classic "well, it's my ball, and if you won't play the game my way, I'll take it and go home." It's people like you, and not people like us, who have the respect problem.

Also, if you care to examine what you said, you are a hypocrite. You are defending a letter that points out the need for respect, and you go putting down anyone who has a different point of view from yours, or who does not program in the same language. And as a matter of fact, I am learning Z80 Assembly.

1) I didn't say anything was wrong with having two versions of the same game, I said it was wrong if someone blatantly stole the other person's idea just to upstage the programmer.

2) I'm not telling you how to make or fix your programs, but if you're working really hard on a program and here you find that someone else has stolen the idea you created (like if you posted in on a PUD board) and made it first, wouldn't you be a little pissed at that person?

3) I know what I said and right there you are stating your opinion in an insulting fashion by saying I'm a hypocrite, where's the respect there? The person that responded to my post was explaining a different scenario (i.e. wanting to make a game in class, WHICH IS NOT STEALING A PROGRAM BEING MADE OR ALREADY MADE). And for that he also tried to insult me stating that he was right on something that didn't relate AT ALL to stealing programs.

4) It's a fact that ASM is better than BASIC due to it's faster output, shorter program size, and ability to do animation without waiting 3 minutes for each frame.

5) I think you have the disrespect problem, "sir."
-"You are a prime example of the REAL disrespect problem we are having" prejudice without careful reading what both of us said (see #3)
-"What our problem is is that people like you are taking TI programming far too seriously. As a result of this, whenever someone else wants to have fun, you guys have to tell us how we can do it" blaming me for something I don't do (telling you how to program, see #2).
-"Also, if you care to examine what you said, you are a hypocrite. You are defending a letter that points out the need for respect, and you go putting down anyone who has a different point of view from yours, or who does not program in the same language" Oh yeah, I'm a hypocrite, someone "tries" to make an argument about making programs in class which isn't about stealing like the ARTICLE and RESPONSES are discussing and thus he's now the authority on that? I don't think so. And lastly, I didn't put him down because of his "point of view," I put him down for his idiocy about understanding what the article is about, whether long term or temporary, both you and him should have read the article/post more carefully. Thank you come again.

Ok, your post is BY FAR the most elitist perspective I have EVER seen.
I skipped two grades and am currently a sophomore in senior math and science. How many brain cells do I have? More than you I can tell.

How many of the people who own TI-Calcs can program in BASIC? Nothing fancy, just simple math programs. Say 10%. Now, who can make a game. Say 5%. Now, who can make a complex game like blackjack. Say 1%. I am in that 1% if I can make blackjack. Since when is any good game a fruit game, you pathetic shit? BTW, about 30% of all ASM programs are shit programs and not worth anything as is. You are set on the idea that the .001% of ASM programmers who program stuff like mario are gods and all the rest of us that are talented BASIC programmers are the dirt on there shoes. Pardon us if we haven't devoted the time to learn another programming language.
I challenge you to make a half-decent version of Blackjack, assuming you can even program in BASIC, which I somehow doubt.
If you want an example of what I've done, download my beta of drugwars from the 83 basic arcive. Until then, stop talking through your ass.

I'm not even going to bother to answer this seeing that any intelligent response would not be understood by you seeing as how you're the one talking with your rear areas and at least I have the dignity to not resort to using such language when any children, teenagers, etc might be able to read that.

Ok first of all about %50 of the people who own calcs can program a good game such as blackjack
its not that hard so don't go out there thinking you so cool. Second I learnd Basic in about 5 day s when I was in 8th grade its so simple. The main reson people don't wan't to program Basic is because it is slow and over all it sucks and that is why there are not vary many people going out there makeing games (and you thought you were smart). I am a Basic programer and a ASM and I would say that ASM is much better.
that kid is so stupid

Actually Zelda64 is a rip off or Mario64. From what I've read as much as 90% of the code is the same. The reson it's OK with the developer of Mario64 is because they are also the developer of Zelda64. The the 2 main resons for makeing Mario64 was to set a high bar for N64 off the bat, and to generate reusable code for Nintendo.

Actually, from what I've read Zelda64 is based on the Mario64 engine. But during the development it has been so rewritten that it's almost a completely new engine.

So, Half-life was based upon the Quake engine. What's your point? They are completely different games.