here it is!! coment number 1.... it is a sound idea, but a believer in even the most warped forms of logic...I know it'll most likely never happen, and even if it does, who's to say higher quality? all anyone will likely do is bicker amongst themselves.."no this variable" or "no that one!"... you'd need to have far more reliable leadership and what's to stop members from making other games? you'd end up with "renegade" programmers, and everyone will promote them to that status of "cult coolness" well, at least if it exists in the calculating world. And everyone's style of programming is different, and some people have already formed organizations which produce games, to limit to just one would be far too constricting. Would the decisions of the alliance be made democratically? Wiould the members have freedom to do what they please? and if so, how is that any different from what's already happeneing...I think that "Ticalc.Org" needs to step up to this line, create some IRC based chat rooms and try to connect with the calc-users more, they're doing a great job, but we need more involvement... i'd be happy to contribute a few more ideas if anyone is interested, anyway, this is getting long so i'd better go- e-mail me and we might be able to put a few ideas together- everyone- this is how alliances begin.

Ever visited #ti , #ti-files , or #calc-ti on EFNET? *most* everyone considered a leader in programming visits there.

I'm sure that you pat wilson are the best programmer in the world and you have never made a single mistake in your code! The truth is is that not all programs can be made perfect every time. A lot of time goes into every program people make. If you don't like how a program works then write your own. Then at least it would be perfect since you wouldn't have any bugs ever. An Alliance would be a bad idea because it would just slow development down. You have to get everyone to agree on what to program and if someone doesn't like the part that they have to program they won't do the best job they can. Having many seperate parties that make programs is the best way to create the best programs. Call it survival of the fittest.

He's saying that!!! Programs AREN"T totally bugfree because this alliance doesn't exist! I'm not a socialist, but I am pleased with this guy's philosophy. An alliance would indeed be better, and, not only could this put out better assembly programs, but POSSIBLY better BASIC programs as well! Granted, it's slow, and quite huge, but I think that even BASIC could benefit from this.
And, yes, it would be survival of the fittest. but doesn't microsoft have a GREAT BIG company? They pipe programs out a dime a dozen (ok, $80 each, but) and they succeed. Granted, small clubs like id Software made it big, but shan't there be room for both? I say go for it, and if it doesn't work, survival of the fittest may prevail.

The worst that could happen is that more crappy programs make it on the web. What's the big hoot?

XaVIëR

I would like to help in this Alliance! I would like to say though Im just a beginner with my TI-86 and would like to learn what all the commands do! Does anyone know of such a page that would teach me. Please help. I need to learn the commands in order to program!
Thanx

For programming Alliance we have Icarius Productions which are Jimmy Mardell, Andrea Ess, Sam Davies, and Matthew Shepcar. They do great work together and port each others games

Too bad they concentrate on the Gameboy. Jimmy Mardell hasn't made a calculator game since he joined them.

Quit whining people! a shell with internal routines would just make unused functions and then in result unused memory. And about programs other than games, what is the point? You can do word processing and stuff on your computer. And as for math functions, most are already on your calculator. like the quadratic formula, the POLY command on 86s and 85s does the exact same thing.

about the ti-85 problem(zshell or usgard) get a freakin' ti-86 and use rascall.

some of us have been using calculators a little longer than you have, like, before the 86 came out last year!

yo dude, i have an 85 too, but that doesnt mean that you cant buy an 86 too. I have an 82, 85, and 86. theyre not expensive, and you can steal one from people at school for free.

mwa ha haa haaaa

There are many problems with creating a TI-Programming Alliance (TPA). As mentioned before, there will be renegade programmers, who will go against the wishes of the TPA, and make their own OS and programs for it. They might be better, and they might not be, but the point is that there will always be competition. And competition is good. Competition is what breeds quality. The programmer always wants his program to be better/faster/whatever than the other programmers' programs.

I also somewhat support the idea. If developers got together and they all aggreed as to how to develop the game, or what to put in it, then an excellent game might be the result. If the programmers in the TPA made compromises in the beginning for whatever reason, then halfway through the project, one programmer might change his mind on his opinion, and try to add something that the other programmers didn't want in there. If a web site such as http://dev.ticalc.org/ existed, then the developers and artists could post their qualifications to others. There would be a "team" atmosphere, instead of an "organization" or "company" atmosphere. This is also the problem that contributes to selling software, or making shareware, for the TI-calcs. With the aspect of money, people get greedy, and that's a fact. As long as programs remain freeware, and teams are allowed to assemble to create programs, then your TPA will work just fine.

Everything else you mention is just a part of an OS, which was discussed as being WindowsTI earlier on ticalc.org. In fact, the multi-tasking idea is the only thing that wasn't meantioned earlier.

-Miles Raymond

(my (more than) 2¢ worth of opinion)

What are you talking about competition? There are only a handful of programmers good enough to "compete" and if a good programmer has already made a game, another good programmer won't attempt to remake it.

Competition is a new programmer trying to make or break a game that has already been made. Taking someone else's source code and adding features is a way of competition.

-Miles Raymond

A new programmer can't compete with an established programmer. There's no reason to when they 1) know that their poor remake of a good game will not be played by anyone and 2) can just as easily make a new game that has a chance at success. The only real competetion is between shells, because no matter how good they get, they never seem to be good enough.

Initiating a programming alliance, with the guidelines set out in the article could easily be unworkable. For a start people would be dropping in and out as they tired of programming their calcs and moved on to other things. Bug free programs would not necessarily result from an alliance, because even with many programmers working on code, bugs still occur and are more likely to occur because many people make more mistakes, and will not know each other's code as well as their own. (Just look at some of the buggy commercial software out there!)

The ultimate OS, portable and platform independent would be impossible! To run a natie TI-86 App on say a TI-83 due to screen size. Creating a GDI for the calcs would not help either because fast access depends upon being able to _directly_ access the display controler and a GDI would slow things down too much for any fast paced TI Calc game.

Ok that's my half a nibble worth. Programming gurus, and everyone else, let me know what you think... :)

Well first i would like to say that it outstandingly funny when people get impatient and press the post button twice or more. Anyways, forming an alliance is great idea. It can actually speed up the production if done properly. Programs could be done like a chain story letter. One programmer starts with some idea that ti-calc fans want and just pass it on and let the next evaluate and "proofread" the program and make any necessary changes. This way one programmer won't be stuck with that program forever with a long deadline. Well that's my 50 cents. what's yours?

by the way check out the url above

The only thing I see wrong with this idea is the fact that most people have different programming styles. To proofread someones program you have to learn there style and try to make sense of what they are doing. If not then what may look right to them may look wrong to you.
This method would also slow down the process too becuz you would have to take the time to figure out what they did, why, and was it the fastest. I am more in favor of a cooperation method were everybody works on the thing as whole, together. Then everybody knows the format and knows whats generally happening.
Jimmy

What about when an author releases a program and someone edits it fixing things then sends it to the author and has them look it over then post it as a new version?

That does not work. Due to the fact that most asm programs are not commented, and even the ones that are are still difficult to understand, it would take a long time to understand how it works before it could be modified. Modifying someone's else's code is very hard, because you don't know how it works. Even working with your own code after it has been sitting there for a few months or so can be difficult.

On a side note, I have noticed that all of these articles are written by non-programmers. Everyone who is too lazy to learn asm just wants to complain and try to force those of us who do program to do a better job. Programming for the calc doesn't work that way. It's a hobby, and more importantly, it's free.

Your exactly right. They do do that. And that reminds of me of some guy on Assembly-86. He came said he was God practically. Challenged us to make some game (mainly just so he could play it). Then suddenly just dissapeared. I wish everyone would quit bi*****g, get of their lazy arse, and do some of the things they seem so bent on making happen. Just my opinion

You are exactly right. Non-programmers are vital to the TI community, but need to learn a bit before making sweeping demands. The whole "multitasking" idea presented in the main article is cool, but has a couple of major flaws:

1.) This is not Windows. Assembly works totally differently

2.) The idea of saving the program execution location for multitasking is good, but far oversimplified. Where are you going to put all the vital data contained in registers, text-mem, or even left on the graph screen? Most programs use roughly the same resources.

3.) Even if the amazing progammers of the world managed to write a bug-free multitasking code for 8x calcs, what purpose would it serve other than a quick "wow" factor? Do we really need this?

Implementing a multi-tasking shell on the 86 is not a difficult programming problem; the real flaw lies in that there is no uniform use of the interrupts that a shell could take advantage of. How can you create an interrupt handler to switch between a game that uses im 1 and a game that uses im 2?

I think that I'm a half-way decent programmer, and I lie to throw in my two bits. I think that this TPA doesn't need to _make_ programs, they could just set the standards for us. They could limit title screens to 2 seconds to display, for example. Or they could requre that a program doesn't overwrite variables. That kinda stuff.

TPA could be to TI-Calcs like Good Housekeeping is to Appliances, with rules and regulations for endorsement such as:
1) No big bugs, If it pulls an ERR6 after ten minutes of play, its a no go
2) Some sort of gore and sexual enuendo limit, probably PG-13
3) Minimum ratings for fun, originality, and speed, No one wants to play Bug Killers V47.2
4) A code reveiw by TPA for repetitive code, to save space
A small seal could be given to the endorsee to put as a screen in the start up or better yet a small logo to put in a corner of their title screen(s). TPA could even be mentioned in the program description here. The TPA site would have to list endorsed programs and alliances cause I know my local programming community would build a faux version quickly to put on their own progs
I know 85,83,82 BASIC HTML and some JavaScript go to web site (no programs distibuted) to see my master peice of Web Art