Survey posted 2000-09-12 16:16 by Andy Selle.

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well - I think not for Algebra 1 and lower. Algebra 2 and above for sure!

what's the deal? it's tuesday and I'm near the top of the board at vote #3?

I believe that anything below trig is pointless. Because with algebra 2 well you might need it for the Logs and some other things.. but If your good at any of your math you can just through numbers into the equation and use a little elbow greese. So that's why i'm the first to say "I dont know" because in my Alg2 class i only used my calc for games.. but in Trig i used that bad boy like all the time.. Now in calculas it's kinda useless for doing limits and finding the epsilon, and delta of everything.. it's just a bunch of algebra, So it's hard to tell. I konw i'll need it later though for stupid integrals and what not.. but for certain parts of math no. and for the stuff with irrational numbers, and finding the cubed root of it all.. yah i'd consider using a calc.

I agree that calculators should be used at times where mental math cannot cut it. But even at points in the higher mathematics a calculator is not necessary. I have viewed from my experience that many people, when given the chance to use a calculator, use it too much and forget the general concepts. People were able to do fine in the higher mathematics before calculators were out for the public. I agree that in some case it is much easier. But the person using the calculator should only be able to do so when they do have the general concepts down pat and the work is just tedious and repetative. A combination of concept tests (without a calculator) with difficult problem tests (where a calculator is permitted) would work fine. I just see too many people having the calculator do all of the work instead of using it only as a crutch.

That's how the AP Physics C and AP Calculus AB exams work, I think - part w/calc, part w/out. In my high school, the calc teacher doesn't even allow calcs at all on tests - not that you really need them. I have an 86 and the only time I really wish for an 89 or 92 is when I have to do some really ugly derivative. In other words, when I'm being lazy. It seems to me that the only good (math) use for a calc is doing fns that are a not fun on paper or mentally - logs, trig (non-unit circle), roots, etc... (NB, this is after about a month of calculus, the teacher said we would use the calcs to do some integrals and such, but we're not there yet).

Same case with AP Calculus BC, and I think it's the same case (but I have not been able to obtain either concrete proof or concrete denial of this) with the IB Mathematics HL.

eofpi and the unimatrix's 45.599850351139 cents

I said no. For lower level classes they should not be used at all, you wont learn anything, and when u have a test with no calcs, you'll fail. Although in AlgII and up they should be used, once you unnder stand the concept. Today(if i wasnt sick) I would be taking a Pre-Cal test, where part is with calcs and part is not. Although any of these I have had before, I had no idea if we were gonna be able to use them or not, but this time i actually learned the stuff.(arg, but now i have to do it after school!!!)

Are you nutz? Calculators are the best thing. In anything from algebra up they can be used for equations and such. Then later with graphing and it only becomes more and more of a help. Without my calc I would be spending a lot of time do some little arithmetic but instead I use an equation and get it done fast and right! The calculators should not only be used in all math classes but should be encouraged since they can help a student who tends to make careless mistakes or is not very fast at mental math. For those of us who can program it also allows us to combine our programming skills with school work to help us out in amazing ways. Math would be a terrible endless strain of work if not for my calculator!!!!!!!

Fool, you prob dont know any math though, and when you have a math test with no calcs, youll fail terribly. You MUST learn to do the math first, then use the calc from then on, but not Till You Learn The Math.

Just because someone uses their calc heavily doens't mean that they dont know math. I am in calculus 3 now and have been using my 83 a lot ever since high school. I feel i am very strong in math and i have to be because i am studying to be a mechanical engineer. Well, the point i am trying to make is that i have never been good at doing math in my head, so i use my calc. For some people it is just easier and faster to put it in the calculator than to do it mentally.

Programming your calc is a different story. I feel that relying on your programs is a very bad thing. I have made countless programs to help me out in math, physics, you name it. However, when it comes to test time, i always do the math out by hand. I only use the program to check my work.

I voted yes, but for upper math classes only. If you were to work out your Trig, you would have pages and pages for just 4 problems, and all that would have taken you hours. I memorize what needs to be done, and use the calc for the things I can't do in my head, thus saving paper and time. As for Physics, if you memorize the equation (and don't sleep in class), you will have no problem come time for a test. In my high school Physics class, several people don't understand how to find the velocity of something given the distance and time! That is elementary. We are just now trying to learn the equation for finding acceleration, and it is killing me because we are going so slow. Anyways...

That's about my 8^(1/3) cents worth!
Aaron

now heres the test of tests, how many ppl pulled out their TI to c if 8^(1/3) was 2??

I don't mean to brag or anything, but I just read this post (not the line in the post above) and figured it out before i got past the "a" in was, just by reading it and figuring it out subconsciously. This was probably largely due to the fact that I have half-intentionally memorized the powers of two up continuously between 2^(1/2)(only the first three decimal places though) to 2^16, and 2^20.

eofpi and the unimatrix's 45.599850351139 cents

I think the question is a bit vague as you can tell by the varied responses already posted. I voted no for reasons similar to the ones posted. The low level math courses don't need calculators. Also as a general rule, using calculators without having learned how to do something the long way with pencil and paper first is not good. As noted, if you have to take an exam where calculators aren't allowed and you don't know how to do the math by hand, well, you're in trouble. Some professors here will not allow calculators in the exams for the freshman college level Astronomy 100 courses. It's easy math, too, very basic equation solving that's probably algebra I level and we very rarely have anything beyond a few powers and roots in terms of mathematical complexity. But if you've relied on your calc all through high school and can't do this stuff on paper, you'll be in trouble when the prof says you can't use your calc on the exams. (BTW, I'm an astronomy PhD student, so I've gone through a heck of a lot of courses at varying levels). My no vote is based more on the "all" part of the question and the fact that it is somewhat vague. Calcs can be allowed, but in the proper fashion, they shouldn't be used to replace the paper and pencil learning that you should have in your education.

I know that for some people that are really into math competitions, the ability to not only do math completely by hand, but do it quickly and accurately is vital. Our first competition is an individual test administered to local high schools here by the University of Miami, and no calculators WHATSOEVER are permitted. Not even slide rules or abacuses. For this simple reason, the math team is learning (mostly) mental shortcuts for nearly all operations known.

As I have stated above, I feel that calculators should be permitted, but only if they are utilized responsibly (I'm not referring to games, but rather to preventing calculator addiction). Somewhere up above I posted the idea of linking the use of calculators, as well as the types of calculators, to scores on a competence test (testing concepts more than computational abilities, although the latter is certainly one thing that one needs to have a demonstrated proficiency at).

eofpi and the unimatrix's 45.599850351139 cents

I'm one of those guys (as most of you are) who got my first calculator at a younger age (8th grade). Being more technically minded, I learned how to use it very quickly. I started programming, and from then on I almost never used my mind, because I figured my calculator could do it. I did okay, and was only screwed every once in awhile when the teacher didn't let us use calculators on the test.

Well, I'm very far into my school career (freshman in college) and I'm now feeling the repurcussions like you wouldn't believe. I've forgotten almost every Algebra I and Algebra II thing I've ever learned...even some of the real basic stuff. Even with the calculator (TI-89) I'm not doing so great.

So, if I can plead to those of you here who haven't been fully encompassed by the calculator yet, please don't let yourself get that way. It's a great tool once you know the concepts, but I never learned the concepts. As a freshmen, I'm reworking Algebra I and II books just to get the hang of the concepts again. I must say, it's a very humiliating experience.

Please listen to what I have to say. You may be thinking you can pull it off, but maths like trigonometry and calculus won't let you do it. (And higher sciences like physics.) It's because of my experience (or lack thereof), that I voted 'NO'.

Thank you for listening.

Sincerely,
Dark Ninja

Damn straight, I never was to great at doing math in my head when I was younger so I went out and got a calculator and used it on simple stuff. I was and still am dependent of my calculator to do some math. I learn that the hard way when I was in algebra II and couldn't use one. I did horrable that year. I'm in the same boat as you, a college freshman, and I wish that I would have not used a calculator untill I was in at least Algebra. I can workout any algebra problem as long as I have a calculator, if not I would do the math three times and get three different answers.

Yeah, thats cause you were the idiot who never LISTENED IN CLASS!
I listen, and do the example problems with the class then learn to do it on the calc!
When I don't have my calc for the test, I STILL ace it!

Vague question, but I say "yes" on the terms that it is for Algebra II and higher maths, and Chemistry or Physics. Calculators should not be used in lower maths because then the base knowledge is not there for higher maths.
I have seen cashiers who could not give change when the computer was down, so I say only use calcs in high math courses.

yeah but what about the not as advanced calculators such as TI-30s.

It doesn't matter. If you can't add without a calculator, you can't add without a calculator. Everyone should learn the basic principles before using a calculator. After that, calculator usage should be left up to the student.

Amen! While I thought this survey was primarily on the subject of more costly -graphing- calculators, my point holds true. If you cannot complete math assignments, in basic algebra and maybe also trig, without calculators, then you will be completely helpless in any higher math courses in college where calculators are not allowed, or in courses (my Math 1750, for example) where programmable calculators are banned entirely.

While calculators are extremely helpful in higher math courses, if you lack the basics because you have used calculators since 4th grade like some of my college classmates, in the real world you will be defenseless.

As a parting point-
When you make a left turn driving, do you use the owner's manual? NO
When you walk around campus, do you always have a map nearby? NO
When you dress yourself, do you always need guidance? NO
That is because you have learned these skills, and basic mathematics should be no different.

i have seen ones who cant when it works, next time u buy something thats $3.19 give them $5.24. I'll bet you get back more than $2.05. thy it esp at fast food

I'd hate to see what happens when the penny gets eliminated. I doubt that most Americans would know how to round prices to the nearest nickel.