Survey posted 2000-08-12 18:23 by Nick Disabato.

Contribute ideas to surveys by sending a mail to survey@ticalc.org.

I'm not buying a news calc because there is no calculator better than the TI-89.

-No voter #2

I agree completely. What am i gonna do, buy a TI-83 for back to school? no. im only going to 7th grade I don't really need a calc anyway till 8th. I just like to program on my ULTIMATE 89.

*sigh*
You shouldn't get an 89 until you take high school geometry. It ruins algebra for you, and it takes SO MUCH to build that skill back up.

If you use a powerful symbolic manipulator like the 89 in seventh grade, you will die in calculus until you are killed from it. :p

--BlueCalx

Yep, Nick's got a point. Just using the 89 in calculus can destroy you if you're not careful. Of course, it can also take a complete mathematical moron and help them get good grades... so it works both ways.

Yes, absolutely! I remember when I started at the university. I had been using a simple scientific from Casio, and the last year of high school i had bought a ti85. Then I started Engenering Physics at Chalmers, that had a strict no calc policy the first year. It was hard to adjust, even though I hadn't been _that_ dependent on my calc. It was realy good thogh to finaly lern to do calculations fast, acuratly and reliably, in head or by hand. I can only imagine what it would have been like if I had used a ti89 in high school.

My advice is that, if you are going on to higher education later on, don't get to dependent on your calculator, especially if it's a ti89. Use it to explore the wonders of mathematics, even use it on tests (if youre allowed) if that will give you a higher grade. But don't fool yourself that _you_ can solve something just because your calc can. Allways lern how to solve all types of problem well by hand, otherwise you will find yoreself in your own personal hell, later on.

my first calc was an 86 for my junior year of chemistry. all i wanted was a calculator that i could see my last operations on so i would know if i skrewed up or not. but just before i decided to get an 83 i found out you could put games on them, then i had to buy the best one...for the best games!!! but when i went to the store i was ten bucks short of an 89, so i got the 86 and a graphlink. now i am quite happy i got the 86 instead though. ill probably get the 89 next year when i head off to college.
rich

When I got my TI-89 I already had learned how to make a program for the TI-85 to factor whatever the ax^2+bx+c=0 thing is. So when I got my TI-89, which factors just about anything, I no longer seemed as imaginative because I could just find a function somewhere on there to do what I had to do. I wholeheartedly agree that a TI-89 in 7TH grade is ridiculous unless you are in Algebra 2.

Yeah, but back then there was no TI-89 for me...

The 89 can in many ways destroy any potential to learn math. It does almost everything for you. I am and Junior and I have had an 89 since my Freshman year. I have seen too many kids buy this calc because it is the best and most expensive. Now when they take no calc tests they fail them. It is really quite sad. It sometimes boggles me why they still even allow the use of these calcs on tests.

I must admit though, it is well worth the money to own one, JUST BE CAREFULL how you use it.

Good advise: Keep and 83+ near by, and know how to use it! I had a test one day, and had to swap calcs with another student. Needless to say, I was fine, but the other guy wasn't!

at my school, the Algebra 2 teacher doesn't allow calculators on the standardized tests, so i can do that stuff pretty well by hand. i can also use the 83+ quite well because she is using one for demonstration purposes. i usually sit back and relax while i find the exact same feature on my 86 and laugh at all the other people who can't figure out what the teacher is doing on the 83.....

on a different note, i also agree that the 89 can ruin you completely in high school math classes. i think the 86 is a good calc for high school because it can do most of the things an 89 and the 83 and 83+ can do, but the 86 requires you to think about what you're doing with it and it doesn't just do the work for you like the 89.

if you haven't noticed, i'm a rabid 86'er...

Before my 10th grade Alg 3+ class i had never touched a Ti 8?or9?. But my teacher was very fond of the 100 question sheets and i knew i could do the stuff i just dont like to waste my time. I bought myself a 83+,not a 86,not a 89 (dont need it, and dont want to kill my self). I make sure i know to the last extent of how do something before i write a prog for it (or if its really complex get some elses). That way i dont screw my self. I also have a personal rule do 15% of all work with out the use of machiens (test excluded) so that my skills stay at par b/c ill probably be a math major in collage.

Just look at Me! I got an 86 in the 8th grade and I was like the retarded wannabe einstein in the class. I should have waited till high school.

Alf

i got an 82 and 86 in 5th grade. that's right 5th. i can program them both very well. then i got the 89 at the beginning of 6th then i learned to program that. sometimes i wonder if any other to-be 7th graders dont have a life also.

i have an 83+ and i have 60$ saved towards an 89. this is ok in my mind because my teachers don't care, i failed algebra freshman year and i'm going into geometry plane as a sophomore, and also because i want to be a journalist. anyway, even if i wouldn't use the calcs for school, i love programming my 83+ (working on a BASIC version of plain old snake because i have yet to see it in the archives) and i am anxious for the advances of the 89.

my two friggin cents
canolacanola

<rant>
blah, blah, blah...
So you see I have too many calcs:

I just originally owned a Ti82 which I didn't get until second semester of my Sophmore year, then a year after that I bought a used Ti85 for $20. Then after another year I traded my ti82 for another ti85, then traded that ti85 & $20 for a ti86. This was good enought until 1 year after that I bought another Ti82 2 weeks later a Ti83 3 weeks later a ti83plus, and antoher month I now have a ti89.

What has this done for me, nothing at all. I am starting to lose interest completely in my calcs if it weren't for ongoing projects I'm involved in.
</rant>

-JrJinfinity
http://redrival.com/jrjinfinity

man, you r just like me,...you see, i orginally bought a TI-83.(freshman year) Then everybody started telling me that there was something better on the new 83+ called "flash ram". So i bought one. (A TI-83+). Then, sophmore year, i had saved up $$$ for an 89. WHich i did end up buying. Then i traded in my old 83 and 20$ for an 85 cause i just felt like having it. Soon i found that the 86 was the predessesor of that, so i got it. Now, all i can think about is getting a 92 or a 92 plus. God forbide i feel an urge to buy the 73!!

The Story of My Life:
I was born.
I got into 7th grade.
My Mom bought me a TI-83.
After finding out the program editor wasn't a text editor, I felt it's power.
Then I bought a TI-89. I skipped all the others and went straight to the TI-89.
Then I bought a TI-86. This was the first calculator I bought with my own money. It was then that I was found to be a calculator freak.
Then I bought a TI-83 Plus.
Now, what does this have to do with anything? On the same day I bought a TI-83 Plus, I came *THIS* close to buying a TI-73, but didn't. I don't know what came over me. I was young. I was foolish. I am sorry.
That still has nothing to do with the post, but I voted, and though I own a TI-81, TI-83, TI-83 Plus, TI-86, and TI-89, never have I bought my own calculator solely for going back to school and actually using it for math.

You'll love a 92 Plus... There's just something computerish about it. Maybe it's the QWERTY keyboard and the old Maclike 68000 processor.

um....no you see I borrowed a friends Ti-92 for 3months over a year ago, I just didn't like it much at all. And that QWERTY keyboard is too damn small to type on, besides I have an 89...and I'm not a Mac fan, Linux is where my money is at.

-JrJinfinity

It is just plain ridiculous. The only reason I am hanging on to my old TI-85 is because I can't use my TI-89 on the SAT/ACT, whichever I'm going to take. I don't see how on earth someone can want to have all the TI calculators. Since I am no longer in Geometry I sense no need to get a TI-92+. But owning a TI-86 in 5TH grade!!! You probably don't know the difference between it and a game-boy. It would have been worth the money to get a gameboy instead, in fact. Plus, you are bound to get stuck up on the use of your calculator if you start using it in 5TH grade.

P.S. the soonest I will buy a calculator is when TI comes out with one with a color screen.

They took geometry off the TI-92+, on the HW2 one I have. I agree that the TI´92 Plus is superflous sometimes, but it is a nice tool to have. Since (but not only since) they are not allowed on those big tests, I will get an 83+. I want a Flash calculator, that's just the way to go.

As for the color thing, I hope we're talking about REAL color, not the three color thing Casio has. There is really no point to that. But 256, or even 16 colors or more would be very nice.

As for 5th grade.......I remember wanting a scientific calculator then! I didn't even know what graphing calculators were.... So, I'm sorry, I don't believe you!

Man when I was in 5th grade they didn't even have pens let alone graphing calculators! If we had to do math we had to use our fingers and toes but it could only get you so far so you had to borrow your friends. You spoiled little brats.

how old ARE you, gramps?

I'm fairly sure that you can use a TI-89 an ANY College Board exam. This includes The SAT/ACT as well as all the AP tests. The only TI calc that's not allowed is the 92 bacause it has a qwerty keyboard.

Almost right. You can only use the 89 on the SAT, not the ACT. I took the ACT twice and trust me, you can't use an 89.

-Fil and his $0.02

I got an 89 before the calculus AP test and now i have three more years in high school without math, unless i take prob&stat. Now i have nothing to do with this black box thingy, except make and play games on it.

You shouldn't even get a graphing calculator until you're at the end of Algebra 2 or atleast doing polar graphs (man, those SUCK!). Even then, my calculator became sort of a crutch for me but my teacher, thankfully, broke my habit of use on my calc by having tests without calculators allowed. I was pissed at first but it was good in the long run.

My teacher last year was wierd with calculators. If you didn't use your calc, then you got extra credit on your test. But the thing is that the kids who didn't use their clacs got so horrible on their test that the extra credit didn't help them at all. Then when AP tests came around they didn't know how to use their calcs good enough to have them of help! I just love seeing Sophmores or Freshmen, and even some Juniors, who can't use their brand spanking new calculators that they just bought the week earlier and not know how to do a single thing on it. I think an 86 in the hands of an experienced TI user is just as potent as an idiot with an 89. My old Calculus teacher knew how to use all of the TI calculators, but she used a SLIDE RULE, of all things, when she taught us stuff other than polar, trig, stat graphing.

actually, i feel that my 83+ and what experience i have is comparable to a moron at school who's rich daddy got him a 92+ for addition.

two pennies=two cents.
the above=two pennies.

I started with an old Casio model 7700 series around 8'th grade, and that was maybe 24k RAM (total), 10 program slots. I could work that today for Algebra, Stats, etc., faster than a new boy with a TI-89 or 92. Now I work with 85 and 92+ basic programming, write advanced software for them, and so on, without flinching. But remember, always, WORK PROBLEMS BY HAND! That can't be stressed enough. If you can't do it yourself, why the hell are you using a calc to do it for you?

2 Cents by Universityman

I really hate it when people @ school go out and buy awesome calculators with their parents money that they don't need for the math A class that they are in, and that they don't spent the time to learn how to use them.

I even knew kids in my pre-calc class last year that didn't know how to use their 85s and 86s. It is stupid to get a new calc that has all the potential to do cool stuff, and then not even learn how to use the basic features. Why not just get one of those ti30x calcs?

Its also kinda weird to hear these seventh graders talk about their 89's. My first calc was an 86 and I got it the summer I graduated 8th grade. It was the summer that they were released. The 83+,92+, and the 89 didn't exist. Kids these days are spoiled (I sound like my dad, that is really scary)

Enough of my ranting,

Matt

Exactly! You really only need a great calculator if you need the great stuff, or if you want it bad enough that you'll buy it with YOUR OWN money!

Plus, The College Exam companies are quickly catching on to the TI-89's abilities. The 89 has also been recently prohibited from the SAT and ACT and may possibly be banned soon from the AP tests also. Essentially the point of this is that if your in an AP Calculus class years earlier than other students, you should be smart enough to do all of that stuff with an 86, 83, on paper, or even a slide rule!

To strengthen your point, when I got my TI-89 it was basically to get a gameboy. But since I quickly learned how to use it, I marvel at the other people who got it just to say that they have an expensive toy, and don't even use it correctly. One of my friends doesn't have a TI-89, but he knows more about them than another one of my friends who just got one because his brother bought one.

EXACTLY! I got my TI-92 Plus with my own money, by selling my camera. Calculators are a nice investment. I plan on buying a few. And they are reasonable affordable... If you are middle class of course.

Hello, first off I am older that most people, a whopping 20 ;>... and have been through a lot of math :(. I am now a junior in college...and am in Linear Algebra / Differential equations (ya I know that is not all that high, but I am a cs major not a math).

Anyways, I got my first graphing calc (82) in 10th grade... it was not a bad decision, I was in algebra III... the next year I got an 85, then the next year an 86 (my senior year) then my freshman year of college I got a 92, then my sophomore year of college I got an 89. Calc II w/ the 89 sorta ruined me, I became lazy did pretty much all of my work on it. I paid for it in calc III.

Anyways to make a long story short I personally would not get an 89 before calc I, and would probabally wait until calc II toward the middle of the semester.

And yup, I bought every single calculator myself, with my own money that I earned!

I now own:

TI: 82, 83, 83+, 85, 86, 89, 92

HP: 49

if people would bother to actually _READ_ the user's manual (that's what it's for people!!!) then the world would be a much better place.

=-whyisntit420-=

I agree W/Matt. i have a 86 and 83+ (i only use the 83+ most of the time), but anyway before i bought the 86, this dumb ass rich kid was all showy about the 92+ he had, and put down the 83+. Well guess what when the next simester rolled around we had Alg II together. Right beside eacher other. I had the good old 83+ highly funished with progs. and the 92 was near new out of the box (so mine was a little scratched and his not, so he ran is mouth abou that too). Well a week latter he was begging for programs and to be tought how to use it. :)

So in short. The power of the calc is really the power of the holder.

Secondly. Why cant you use a QWERTY key pad on the ACT/SAT. I mean all the other ones had a ordered alpha pad????

Third. Dont use a prog. unless you know how to do it any way. (I mean perm. and well, not just for that day).

Thx and sorry for the typos

My calc teacher won't even let us use calc (of any sort) on most tests (or so she said today, the first day of school for me, Aug 14). She says that for most of the AP exam calcs are not used (AB).

Why would I want anything better that an 86 anyway - I'll do the alegbra myself and use the calc to check it.

JEI

Ok, everyone else has commented about their calculator experience, so here is mine. Until the 6th grade, I was strickly prohibited from using calculators. Despite this, I was doing 8th grade math in the 5th grade. Sometime in middle school, my dad gave me an old casio (can you say just enough memory to write the most basic BlackJack program in the world... that couldn't even tell if you busted until after you stand?) Anyways, that thing ran out of batteries after a while, and I never really had a reason to upgrade it. My Freshman year (9th for all of you out there that only have 3 years of high school) I entered Geometry, and again, I was unable to use a calculator. Then, my Sophmore and Junior year, I was allowed to use a calculator again, but guess what? It was mainly just the school provided calculator, which was... a 4 function calculator! (you remember those calculators, add, subtract, multiple, divide, maybe a percent and square root.) The thing was a TI, it was blue, it was square... but it worked! My senior year was a happy year without math...

So, all in all, when did I get my calculator? I bought a TI-86 before I got to college, because I was taking Calculus, and they "required" you to have a calculator of at least TI-85, and I had heard stories that they could be used for games. So, I bought a TI-86, and started building a link-cable (parrallel, I'm actually quite good now, after 3 some tries) Now, half way through the semester or so... probably earlier, for some unknown reason, my calculator died on me. *poof*! There she goes, and I'm left sans calc. So, I work on writing and emulator for it after deciding that all the other ones out there were insufficient. (This was before VTI, so don't moan about that) But it took longer to debug the thing, and get it running than before the final... and besides, I doubt my teacher would have let me have my computer in the room for the final... even if it WAS emulating a TI-86. ("Honestly teacher! I'm not cheating!")

Anyways, everyone else in the class had some calculator, often a TI-89, and complained when the teacher said that they shouldn't use their calculator. They griped "But how do we know if our answers are correct?" To which the teacher, striking a chord in me, said, "You can't just tell?" I guess if you spent your entire life actually DOING the math, you know if you're doing it right.

Of course, the real bane of everyone was me... after all, they complained "I'm a [insert some scientific field here] major, I'll never use Calculus in real life" To which I'd respond, "I'm a German major" and that took care of their complaints, considering that I wasn't paying any mind to the teacher, yet still passing quite comfortably. *evil laugh*

Sometimes it feels so good making people feel stupid... but then, it's just too easy sometimes...

Well, it depends. If your school system had you buy an 89 in 7th grade (I got one then too by the way), then when you get to calculus and everyone has no idea how to do all this stuff without their machine, that's not the student's fault.

As I said, I got an 89 in 7th grade (and an 83 a year or so before), and it's not really a crutch for me. Sure, when I have 100 problems on a subject I understand well, I might use the 89 on some of them when I'm just tired of it. But I'm not gonna take my homework and say "Hmm, I can't do this, let's just make the 89 do it for me!". That's not really how it works in my school system, if you use the calculator so much that you can't really do the math, when test time comes, you're gonna fail. And scores of "A A F" for the first semester don't look to great :)

So my entire 8th grade Algebra class had 83(+)'s, and the ones who realized you had to use the calculator as a tool, not a crutch, passed, and the ones who didn't, you guessed it, failed.

So to sum it up, yes the 89 will ruin Algebra for you, but only if you let it.

- Jeff

Exactly! Perfectly said. I've been trying to figure out how to say that for a while now.

A ti-83(+) can ruin algebra for you.. You get hooked on using it for graphing and stuff, and write programs to do the work for you. Then you get screwed over when the stuff gets tough and you don't know how to do the easy stuff..

Jogan
636-ELITE

i say that calcs should be used as little as possible. the first thing my calculus teacher did was show us how calculators can give misleading information (just keep zooming in on your graph, and you'll see why). besides, Isaac Newton was able to prove that planets travel in ellipses without a calculator. all that calculators are good for is to handle many numbers and be extremely accurate. my favorite thing that they can do is direction fields- try drawing one by hand.

keep it real and take up bowling- its a good geometry sport.

Especially if it's college-level calculus, where they generally don't let you use calculators. I suffured from overdependency on my 86; I can't imagine the horror of needing an 89.

I agree. I got an 86 for Chrismas in 9th grade. Because of it, I am no longer in advanced math.
I just used it instead of accually learning math. :(

I don't know about that. I boutght a 92 back in eleventh grade (about five years ago) and with a promise to my teacher was allowed to us it in calc if I didn't use the symbolic functions on tests. But I did use it on all my HW when the problems got too booring and repetitive. My grade didn't seem to suffer.

For the first few math classes I took at Cal there were no calculators allowed, which was fine because the 92 is difficult to fit on those little college desks during midterms. But in one vector calculus course the professor said we could use anything we wanted on the tests. The 92 kept me from having to work out messy integrals and instead concentrate on what the course was really trying to teach, not earlier material. Of course I wasn't using the calculator to do anything I couldn't eventually do by hand.

Anyway, because I am very familiar with the capabilites and interface of the 92, I will probably be purchasing an 89 this year so that I can use it on the GRE (yeah! even more school). I have to check that it is allowed on the test though.

Some of us take Geometry in 8th grade, thank you very much.

They should start teaching Algebra, Geometry, ... in 5th grade. I can't even remember what I learned in middle school. Do they really think fractions take four years to learn?

How about you trying to teach 5th graders about polynomials? They don't even know the metric system yet!!

hey! i knew the metric system in 5th grade.

hey! i learned the metric system in 3rd grade

Me in 2nd! I remember watching video's with a catchy tune...

"The metric system..... A system based on 10!"

I wish ifp crap (inches, feet, and pounds) would be removed from the curricula so students wouldn't have to waste time on something that 94% of the world doesn't use. Also, there would be less of a reason to teach fractions for four years if all the rulers were marked in 10ths instead of 16ths.

Actually, it's 99% of the world. The US is the ONLY country that still uses the mile/inch system (Don't know it's official name) We should teach kids the metric system from the start, and stop wasting their time.

I think your'e right. I remember learning frations in a year and being bored until 8th grade when I started algebra. If kids started algebra earlier it would be alot better.

Being in special education, I was able to learn about Scientific Notation in 5th grade (in an 8th grade math book) so, the next year, when they threw me in a 7th grade enriched class (ja, and you thought the school system was holding you back, they didn't make YOU go backwards) We eventually got to scientific notation... but it was ONLY multiplication and division! They didn't even teach how to add or subtract them! Like it was something miraculously difficult that these students couldn't figure out! ARGH!

Some of us where doing calculus in 6th by ourselves and never got credit for it couse the stupid teacher wouldent sigh the advancement form

I got my 89 just today and I think it's pretty cool. I've used an 83 and 83plus my freshman and sophomore year and I learned alot better than my friend who had and 89. You should wait 'till Triginometry like I did to get an 89

I feel that teachers should make you learn the stuff. Mine did even though I and some of my friends had an 86, 89, and 92Plus's as they came out (or as we could afford them.) When the teacher realized that we could blast through his tests with these calculators built in functions, our written programs, and the wonderful programs from www.ticalc.org he started making tests that he would not let us use the calculators on to test our knowledge on the stuff, and he would do it randomly and without warning. This idea carried on to the next teacher and so on.
I really appreciate this because we were beginning to become dependent upon our calculators for everything and this way of teaching really helps you to learn problem solving and increases what you know in other areas like Physics, Computer Programming and Statistics. If you relly on you calculator for all of the answers how will you ever make it when the batteries go dead?

Onyahoshimeeka

PS I figured I would right a long spill on this Poll because I will be away from home for two years and will not have access to a computer, so sorry if you have to read it all.

I somewhat agree with you. It's true, we would have learned more in class if these things were never made. Alot of us spend a majority in class fiddling with the buttons to play games and such. However, many of us, for example I, use our noggins to create ingenius programs which do the work for us. Not just any dumbass can do this; it takes a remarkably intelligent dumbass to do this kind of work. It's obvious some of us are just slacking and using other peoples programs, but I take pleasure in helping these dumbasses pass their classes. In fact, the other day in summer school, my program mathwhiz inspired one of my classes to take up programming. Interesting.

(Inspirational) Alf

I know. I got bored one day and made a program on my 83+ that used newtons method to find the zero of a function. But it gets better! I also integrated a Radical program so if the zero turned out to be a square root, it would detect it, and simplify it. So if my function was x^2-8, it would detect Sqrt(8), and simplify it to 2 Sqrt(2). hehe. Nobody else could do that though( pretty easy imo)

Nathan

I have found that programming some math thingy on my calcs (the more I program it on, the better) makes me learn the concept much better, because I have to figure out how to get a (sometimes very stupid) piece of logical SiO2 to do not always logical things. This is particularly true for my TI-83, although all programs are first done on my TI-89, then go to my TI-85/TI-86 (I have them both), then to my TI-83. The same is true for science programs.
I have gotten to the point where I can write programs in seconds for most tasks (TI-BASIC is adequate for almost everything but games). I can also port programs between calcs almost as fast as I can write them. I even picked up a friend's Casio graphing calculator and was able to program on it almost instantaneously, because of apparent similarities to TI-BASIC.

e of pi and the unimatrix's 45.59985035114 cents

My point exactly! I know the concept much better after I program it. Sometimes I get stuck on something, and I have to think hard about it. The point of making a program is to speed up the process. That's what calculators were originally created for. I still understand the principles of what the program does.

Alf

I have to agree here, (gets slightly off subject) because when the US was building the first atomic bomb, computers(basically simple scientific calculators) were used- not because Einstein, Fermi, Oppenheimer, Bohr and the rest did not know how, but because doing every possible permutation was far too slow.
(back on subject)
If you truly understand the concept(graphing, trig, whatever) and a program or a particular calculator makes things easier for you, then more power to you.
But- if you are using a calculator to substitute for your own knowledge or to avoid learning it the hard way, put down the calculator, learn it, then come back to the calculator when you understand and will lose nothing by using it.

Just my 2.333 cents(inflation)

Knight/Rocket

amen to that. I was programming up a storm last year. When I programmed them, I knew the concepts, but I forgot them as I went through the year. The only thing I remembered was how to use the programs, and that doesn't help too much when you leave your calculator home. I think it is better, and a lot cheaper to just learn them really well. The guy behind me had a TI-89, but he also knew the math really well; sometimes he could even beat me with my programs! Needless to say, he got an easy A in trig, while I pulled a B+ (barely) So make sure you're okay with the math before using programs, and you probably better not use other people's programs.

I never use other people's programs, nor do I distribute my own programs, except occasionally to ticalc.org and Dimension-TI. I have not even compared code with anyone else. I have taught friends very BASIC commands like Disp, OutPut, Goto, and Lbl, but that's about it. I have not taught them how to work with math commands in TI-BASIC.

I avoid using others' programs, at least for math and science, because I know to what extent my programs are tested. I also thoroughly debug my programs, although, thankfully, math and science programs are generally quite straightforward to do so. I also know that the mathematics are identical to that found in my textbooks. Since some facets of programs can be quite quirky (Can anyone figure out how to disable the automatic caps lock for request fields in dialog boxes in TI-89 BASIC?).

As far as leaving your calculator at home, I NEVER leave home, hardly even leave my room, without my TI-89. I even take it with me on roller coasters (velcro testing on cargo pockets)(lines can be very long, too).

e of pi and the unimatrix's 45.59985035114 cents

I have written hundreds of programs for Casio, all of the TI's, and computer languages, and I do use others' programs as well as my own. I respected the time my peers put into their programs, and we shared programs all the time. I learned some concepts by reverse engineering other peeps programs to understand the source code and basic ideas. Hell, with their permission, I would take their programs and condense and debug their work. One of my programs, Coordinate Geometry (not released), ended at version 1.7 with help from about 8 people.

But anyway, remember to understand their work before useing it. Maybe that doesn't go for games, but if it is math, science, etc., know your stuff before going to the calc.

2 Cents from Universityman

Hi, I just got out of 7th grade, and it helped me A TON in 7th grade. I know it can do a lot more, but I was in an advanced math class and it REALLY helped. Its an 89 by the way. I dont think i'd buy a 92+, because, they suck. (notice the period)

Also, if you like to program on your calc, try QBasic. It's basic for your comp. I found it at microsoft's home (microsoft.com) under olddos.zip. It's old, but fun to play with.

If you really like to program on your calc,you should try C or C++ (doesn't really matter which). TI-Basic, in my experience is pretty similar to, albeit much slower than, these languages. And knowing C can be a useful skill.

BTW: To not make this totally off-topic, I'll talk about my calculator. I have an 89 and hardly use it except to write games and stuff. I almost never need it in math class; I have a little HP scientific calculator and an 83+ and I don't even use those that much. I have a friend, however, who got an 89 in his freshman year for Algebra II and is now dependent on it for even simple addition. People should be smart about using these things or not buy them at all because they're way too powerful unless you're using them for some professional application. The common dumbasses shouldn't have them for school.

I agree! C++ is the way to go. It is a lot easier than QBasic and has infinitaly more capabilities.

where exactly could we learn C++?

go to your library and check out a book called SAM'S TEACH YOURSELF C++ IN 21 DAYS

i have that book. Have any of you tried Joe Burn's "HTML Goodies"? It's the greatest. It makes it so easy. He also has JavaScript Goodies. I wish he would make C++ Goodies because I have found C++ to be alot harder than most languages.

Visual C++ 6.0 for Dummies...even if your not a dummie this book is a real help.

Some high schools (such as mine) offer programming as an elective. I'm just waiting til my Sophmore year so I can take it...

C++ easier than QBasic? Thats funny. LOL.
But I will agree C++ is probably a better language to learn.

Okay...if you say Qbasic is harder than C++ let's see..hmmm

You decide: Which is easier!

1) PRINT "Hello World!"
or
2) #include iostream.h
void main()
{
cout << "Hello, World!\n"
}

So?

#include iomanip.h
void main()
{
cout << "\033[4;40m" << "Hello, World!\n"
}

I think that C++ is easier to understand and work with (definitely easier to work with.) but maybe that is just me. The above numbers make the output blue. Here is some more colors. (I'm just glad that I don't have to write DOS Programs anymore.

cout << "\033[0;40m"
<< "Regular is number 0\n";

cout << "\033[1;40m"
<< "Bright White is number 1 or 37\n";

cout << "\033[4;40m"
<< "Blue is number 4 or 34\n";

cout << "\033[30;40m"
<< "Dull White or Gray is number 7 or 30\n";

cout << "\033[31;40m"
<< "Bright Red or Pink is number 31\n";

cout << "\033[32;40m"
<< "Green is number 32\n";

cout << "\033[33;40m"
<< "Yellow is number 33\n";

cout << "\033[35;40m"
<< "Purple is number 35\n";

cout << "\033[36;40m"
<< "Light Blue is number 36\n\n";

cout << "\033[0;40m"
<< "Note the colors depend on the computer.\n"
<< "On some computers the color is Bright Red\n"
<< "on some Pink and on others it is Apple red.\n"
<< "So Remember to test the program.\n"
<< "Make sure that the color is what you want!\n\n";

cout << "DEVICE=C:\\" << "WINDOWS\\" << "COMMAND\\" << "ANSI.SYS\n"
<< "Must be in the CONFIG.SYS File of the computer.\n\a";
//DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\ANSI.SYS must be in the config.sys of the computer if on windows. My Unix doesn't need anything added to it.

QBASIC IS SOOOO MUCH EASIER! It's almost like TI-BASIC.

as i said in my previous comment, TI-Basic seems to be pretty heavily based on C/C++. And QBasic is not worth learning if you want to make any really powerful/complicated programs; C (or another more modern language) is the way to go for that. Sure, if you're just writing little programs, QBasic is fine. But if you want real power, go for something else.

#include<iostream.h>

int main(int *argc, char **argv){
for(int i=1;i<argc;i++)
cout << argv[argc]<< "\n";
cout << "I don't really care about the difference between them";

#include <iostream.h>

void main( )
{
cout << "QBasic *is* easier than C++" << endl
<< "However, I prefer writing in C++ because"
<< "it is a much more powerful language.";
}

#include <stdio.h>

void rant(void)
{
printf("I much prefer C, because C++ is highly over bloated, and inconsistant\n"
"'course, I know all the little tricks in C/C++, and it just happens that C\n"
"is very much more often nice and clean.\n\n");
printf("BTW, don't _EVER_ declare your main to be void! This is because all\n"
"of C/C++ assumes main is an int, and if you exit(1); in a void main, then\n"
"all havoc will be let loose, and you will have completely undefined activities!\n\n");
}

int main(void)
{
rant();

printf("Anyways, not to turn this into a C/C++ programming style discussion...");

return 0;
}

In programs that don't use the exit( ) statement, void main( ) works perfectly fine.

And technically, there are supposed to be arguments in the main( ) function for command-line arguments if the program is to be run from DOS:

int main(int argcount, char *argv[])

Don't forget that there are many, many programming languages. Java is great cross-platform, Fortran was the first compiled language, Perl works great for Unix, Visual Basic is the easy option for Windows 9x or Microsoft Access macros/modules, and C++'s power is perfect. That isn't even all of the languages I can list; my point is to pick the language best for YOU.

2 Cents by Universityman

dude your a dork. You already ruined your self for the future. And anyways TI-83 are exellent starter calcs. I progded on since 5gr. school.

Hello

I really enjoy this site and it has been of great help to me in my calculator information and uses however my calculator was stolen and my family is too poor to buy one otherwise they would have they are really great however if anyone can aid me in ways to get a calculator for free it would be of great aid

thanx

Look on Ebay.com. While it may not be a free calculator, getting a new in box TI-89 for $80(just saw this 5 minutes ago) is definitely cheaper and easier than $150 from a store.
Good Luck!

Also, I just saw a NIB 86 for $65 and a NIB 83+ for $51. If this is within reach for you, I strongly suggest taking a look.

I need something under 5.00

OK- the last option I can think of is go to a store that sells graphing calculators about a week after school starts. Sometimes you can get the demonstration model of a calculator really cheap(a friend of mine got an 85 for $8!)- maybe even in your price range!

I found a TI-82 for $2 at a swap meet. The guy said it didn't work, but I bought it anyway. I took it home and performed some small amounts of maintenance on it (cleaned the contacts, changed all batteries, etc..) and it worked fine!

You should go to cheapcalculators.com. They sell calculators (really) cheap. You could get a TI-83+ for $65, a TI-89 for $85, or a TI-92+ for $140. I'm hunting for a TI-92+ that's even cheaper, though... could anybody help me out??? Please don't give me any of this auction crap; those things skyrocket like rabbit populations. I'm looking for transactions with solid, set prices. Thanks.

2 words

good luck

One registered trademarked word:

eBay!

True dat'

-Jim

i am getting an 89 instead of my stupid 83+ though i would like a 73 to just laugh at, so i guess i have an acceptable answer to get a new calc.

i am also glad that the calculator im getting is good. :)

Someone tell me what shell to use for my TI-86!!!

You don't need to use a shell on the 86. If you want capabilities in a shell, use iShell.

What does the "i" in ishell stand for so i know which shell it is to download? Also, has anybody noticed that the gameplay on an 86 is alot better that the 89 in some cases. I think it is just because no one knows how to exploit the full capability of the 89. Any opinions?

-Justin

PS- Will somebody make a Mario for the 83 plus already! I'm waiting!!

The shell is called "ishell"
It is by Jonah Cohen and the guy that made the shell ase.

ok, where on ticalc.org can i download ishell from? ie, under TI-86 assembly programs, misc. programs? Where can i look?

-Justin

PS What about the Mario 83+??? Hurry!!!

I would recommend downloading it from:

http://jonah.ticalc.org

Jonah is the maker. There is always the latest version there.

PS - The 83+ doesn't deserve Mario...(oh great one.)

While we're on the subject of making games for the 83+, somebody please make a Final Fantasy type RPG!! Enough of those cheap ARPGCS games! I thought I had it made when MirageOS was released, but no, it couldn't emulate Joltima or any of the good 82 RPGs... So please, since I don't know enough ASM yet to make one myself, somebody out there should.

I bought a new ti because nothing is better than an 89.

I agree. The 89 is the best Calc!!

The ti-85 is great.
But 89ti is betr