Thanks so much for the positive feedback.
I've tried to answer as many questions as possible by posting responses.

If you guys come up with any new ideas, I might consider updating the article and including your ideas in the new article. Then the article could be a shell "resource" to let the programmers know what the TI community really wants in a shell!

I've also thought of 2 new ideas over the weekend:

1. AUTO COMPRESSION/UNCOMPRESSION: The abiltiy of the shell to recognize if a file is compressed and then automatically uncompress it. With this you could compress every program in the RAM and then the shell would uncompress the program when run, and then compress it back when finished. It would take a little longer to initially run a program, but thats the price you would pay for more free RAM.

2. QUICK ICONS. I noticed the start bar was kind of cramped so I figured I could replace the ASE type categories with Icons representing them. Then you could fit the start menu button, about 5 or 6 category icons, and the Free Ram all on one bar.

~Philip
pmadsen@juno.com

Whoops! I pressed the POST button too soon. Just one more thing I wanted to mention...

3. TI-BASIC PROGRAM SUPPORT: Shells should start supporting TI-Basic program descriptions. How? If you make the first command of you Basic program a string enclosed in quotes, the string will be ignored when the program is run (If you have commands following it). You could also enclose sprite data (hex) in the quotes for the program's icon.

Good idea! but i didn't quite understand your explanation. So you are saying by putting a string on the first line of a basic prog u can show the description? or not?

please someone explain this with some example

if u want to

It would show up as the description, but not run in the program.

this is what i put in

:"By Bill anonymous"
:ClLCD
:blah
:blah

i use the rascall shell and in the place where it is suppose to show the description it just shows the program name.

hope i am not making u angry , please explain this

The object is to write ASM code in the GUI to recognize this initial string. There is no shell yet that can recognize this.

in ams2, you put it in a comment and in the catalog you press f2, scroll to the program, and press f1. This allows you to put a comment in the program.

I think your idea is great and will apeal to many people. But I wonder if it is possible to make a screen saver with this shell just like windows. And one more thing on the link option it should be able to ask what kind of calculator you would like to recieve from(82,83,85). Thanks a lot.

I like this idea in theory, and everything sounds cool, but after a while using the explorer on your calculator would become old. An OS that works on a computer works on a computer because it suits the needs of a computer user. The needs of a TI calculator user are significantly smaller. A start menu is not needed, PW protection is, a screen saver is not needed, TI 83, 85 emulation is. Please DON'T try to make a calculator into a computer, instead incorperate useful things such as an easier graphing interface (I don't know how this could be accomplished, but I find TI's interface cumbersome)...


...these are just my thoughts.

I think you want a suspand option, since its LCD, it will save more battery if it just show a clear screen.

I like your presentation of the problem, but I have to say...I've got some major problems with your solution. WindowsCE, for example, is not doing spectacularly well. Why not? Well....Microsoft is making the same mistake you seem to be: that an OS that works on a computer will also work on a palmtop. Yet the TI is intrinsically different from a computer. So how can we assume GUI paradigms (which take years of research to be done right) can just be dumped to any platform. For heaven's sake..this is a calculator, and we should be thinking of innovative new ways to make a calculator OS. Is a clock necessary? Why a start menu? There are simply not enough files capable of being stored that would require a complex hierarchy. And even if there were...menus are designed with the assumption that screen size is not an issue. I think that in order to design a really kick-ass OS (GUI or not), we need to do two things:

1)Identify the needs of a TI user, or any calc user for that matter.
2)Identify the limitations in screen size, speed, memory, etc...
3)Given step 1 as an upper bound and step 2 as a lower one, make an OS that fits somewhere in the middle, combining the most features while living WITHIN the limitations of a calculator. Shells like ASE and Fargo do this very well.
4)Given how amazing talented some of the programmers are, use the free memory to add other features that are not a requirement. For example-dynamic loading of assembly drivers for serial devices (a QuickCam drive couldn't be that hard..could it?) OK..I'm going blue-sky, here. But that's ok. Step 4 should be done LAST...not first.

I think there's no limit to what we have the capacity to do. I've written Wireframe Renderers in basic that take up 460bytes, and are nearly as fast as a 92. These things are possible, but we need to start from the ground up. Starting from scratch seems to be a theme in the TI community, and it's one that adds tremendous enginuity and innovation.

Let's keep the flame alive.

Emmanuel

RIGHT ON!! This is competely the way things should be done. For the love of god people!... This IS a calculator. You either bought it to do CALCULATIONS, or for games. If you can't figure out how to use it, mabey you shouldn't be using it. Ever think of that? If people really need a GUI to run a Frekin' game, then something is wrong. I'm sorry, but ignorant people like this who want junk that isn't necessary need to be drug out in the street and shot.

Of course, the ti89 has most of those functions built in... Instead of compression, it has archiving, which puts variables/programs in a area separate from RAM which holds even if all batteries are taken out! String editor? The ti89 has one built in...

When do you think the first ASM programs for ti89 will come out?

Hey, the type of memory the article above this one is called flash memory. I'm not saying the Flash tm type of thing, in TI-92 pluses, 89s, and 73s. For those of you who have played old Super Nintendo RPGs that have saving, some use flash memory such as Final Fantasy III, or at least the version of FF3 my friend has, and it takes about two to three seconds to save your game. Now, I've examened these save files on my computer, and their less then 100 bytes. Now, translate this to TIs. 5 and 6 kilobyte files will take forever. More than two minutes for 5k of data (at least on the TI-89 I used...).

Hey, the type of memory the article above this one is called flash memory. I'm not saying the Flash tm type of thing, in TI-92 pluses, 89s, and 73s. For those of you who have played old Super Nintendo RPGs that have saving, some use flash memory such as Final Fantasy III, or at least the version of FF3 my friend has, and it takes about two to three seconds to save your game. Now, I've examened these save files on my computer, and their less then 100 bytes. Now, translate this to TIs. 5 and 6 kilobyte files will take forever. More than two minutes for 5k of data (at least on the TI-89 I used...).

Hey, the type of memory the article above this one is called flash memory. I'm not saying the Flash tm type of thing, in TI-92 pluses, 89s, and 73s. For those of you who have played old Super Nintendo RPGs that have saving, some use flash memory such as Final Fantasy III, or at least the version of FF3 my friend has, and it takes about two to three seconds to save your game. Now, I've examened these save files on my computer, and their less then 100 bytes. Now, translate this to TIs. 5 and 6 kilobyte files will take forever. More than two minutes for 5k of data (at least on the TI-89 I used...).

Ok, here's my $.02

The basic idea of expanding the range of the TI is a good idea. However, I have a couple of nits. First, why is it a requirement that everything look like Microsoft??? Let's make our own GUI, and save the Microsoft stuff as a non-integral shell that could be added/deleted for wow-factor. Also, how about breaking the program up into componant parts, and distributing the source along with the program? That way, the GUI would take on Linux properties where every user could modify, recompile, and use whatever "flavor" of GUI suits them best. I talking about segmented, WELL-DOCUMENTED code here... it would be a pain, but very rewarding in the end.

Ok, here's my $.02

The basic idea of expanding the range of the TI is a good idea. However, I have a couple of nits. First, why is it a requirement that everything look like Microsoft??? Let's make our own GUI, and save the Microsoft stuff as a non-integral shell that could be added/deleted for wow-factor. Also, how about breaking the program up into componant parts, and distributing the source along with the program? That way, the GUI would take on Linux properties where every user could modify, recompile, and use whatever "flavor" of GUI suits them best. I talking about segmented, WELL-DOCUMENTED code here... it would be a pain, but very rewarding in the end.

One more thing. I've found that most of the Basic programs I use work much better from the home screen. Why must every asm shell insist on listing Basic programs? Again, customize...

I find basic programs easier in the shell b/c I have a lot and I don't want to press more about 10 times, search thru the catalog, or type it in. In Rascall (and maybe ASE), you can hide the basic programs if you don't want them.

I think this would be awsome! Who cares if its 10k, as long as it includes all those programs that are integrated into it. Keep up the good work!

Jakob Perry

I think the idea of a GUI is great. Now I'm not a asm programer but I a c++ one. I had an idea and I'm not sure if any one has thought of it, or at least not as much as I have. Lets say someone figured out how to use the calculators CBL to receive the x and y coordinates of a pen used on the Ti-Calc screen, the way I propose to do this is while the program is running, flash a dot on each pixel on the calcs screen, one at a time at a very fast rate. When the pen senses a dot that flashes it would check with the calc and see what dot was flash at that time, that way you could get the x and y coordinates of the pen. How would this be relevant you say, well you could use this in a couple ways:

1. I'm thinking of an organizer similar to a Palm Pilot and it would be much cheaper. You could have a sticky notes pad or navigate a GUI.

2. You could use it just to draw pictures, sort of a sketch pad, you could pick different shades of gray, and just draw when you want, not very useful.

3. You could actually make some sort of hand writing recognition program, but I don't think this would be useful either.

There are many diff. ways you could use it, I'm not a ASM programer (a novice one, but not very good) so I don't know the limitations. I just thought I would feed the ideas on doing new and inovative things on the TI. There are other ways you could find the location of the pen on the screen but I thought this one seemed the easiest.
I would love to hear any comments(hopfully positive).

I love the idea.... that is excellent... there is only one design flaw in this one... all of the pixels flashing at that high a rate, whether possible or not, would drain the batteries much faster than usual.. you might consider a batterry pack desgin as well to aid in supporting it..
another thought is that it may distort the image omn the screen. This task would be a very difficult one at that.

While it's a nice idea, the practicality is null. How are you going to create this pen thingy? I doubt that it could be created by the everyday person at home. Even if the parts could be acquired at Radio Shack or some other store and a diagram was posted on the 'net, could a pens-sized object be created? Also, I'm relatively sure that if the wiring wasn't done correctly, the current overload through the CBL could damage some of the interal calculator parts.

Or maybe an individual or group will make the pens and sell them to others. How is the pen going to be distributed? An entire company would have to be created around this product to create the marketing, packaging, construction, and sample programs for this pen. Not only would this take an enormous amount of time and effort, but the price of the pen would skyrocket to compensate.

I'd estimate the price of this pen to be over 15 dollars. Who is going to buy a $15 pen for a calculator that costs $120? That's 8% of the cost of the calculator for a pen that allows you to "click" on part of the screen. Drawing pictures could be nice, but is it feasible in real-time? I ask the same question of the handwriting recognition programming.

Finally, there is the programming for the pen. What advantage is there of using a pen, for most programs? As far as I can tell, using the F1-5 keys, 2nd, enter, and exit works just fine. Not only this, but how much speed would be sacrificed to allow for the program to search for the x and y coordinates of the pen, not to mention the aesthics of the point traveling across each row down the screen.

I'm also a C++ and basic ASM programmer, so some (or all) of my inferences could be wrong. Criticize away.

Daladran

-Sorry for any grammatical and/or spelling mistakes; this took me too long to write so I'm not going to check it for errors.

Here's the thing, I wasn't saying that I would make this pen or that anyone else should, I was just giving an idea that I though would be cool, don't forget though that other people have made things for the TI that I see no use for, like a TI light. I was just trying to give some new ideas on a concept that I though would be cool. Even though this will probably never be used, if it worked (now that I think of it I don't thing it would, except if it were checking certain area's, i.e., like buttons or diff. large objects on the screen) it would be much cheaper then a palm pilot and a cool accessory.

Thanks for the comment although I don't agree totaly.

Is there any C++ ==> Z80 compiler out there? if there is mail me please.