First of all, I want to say that I am only commenting on the TI-73.
I personally feel that it is really not necessary for TI to make calculators that are not as advanced. Maybe the price concern will bring some people to buy it, but, I think TI-83+ is really a good choice for high school students, and TI-89/92 pretty good for college-level course. I know because I am a high schooler taking college-level course.
On the link for the 73 Explorer, TI said it is aimed for grades 4-7, I might be not fitting in to the world situation, but back in my country, Taiwan, people does not use calculators when they are that small, but still excel in math nevertheless. After I moved to America, I discovered many of my America-educated schoolmates are relying TOO much on calculators. I personally feel this is not the best trend to follow. (I mean 7*3-2 should be EASILY done in the head.)
I think TI should focus more on getting advanced calculators that is really needed, like to subsitute for a Computer Algebra System. We know that some things are just way too complicated for normal students or even professors to do it by hand, that is the point of calculators, in my oppinion, to give quick approximations to functions not integrable using elementary functions, etc. It is not just to help people think less.
Just my oppinions.

I'm not sure what the thinking is. In my day, we had four function calculators with a % and Square root button. These were not used often since much of elementary math is centered around memorizing common function and learning fundamental arithetic.

Calculators are to be used after one learns how to operate the function. For example, one could easily create a Pythagorean Theorom program in BASIC and that would solve all problems for you. But the objective is to learn the theoeum, not how to plug numbers into a calc. Calcs are convenient. You wouldn't want your accountant to bill you for extra work because he didn't use a calculator.

In seventh and eighth grade I used a scientific calculator. I never needed the entire scientific let alone a grapher.

But TI found a venue to make money, it's not TI's problem that there are lazy people that will buy calcs for easy math, its their problem. But when someone's trying to erect a building and can't figure out the size of a diagonal beam from the right angle of the floor and vertical supports, he's going to be looking for a burgerflipper job at McD's.

I totally agree, in grades 4-7, the only math you have to do is basic arthmetic (which a US$1 pocket calc will do) with perhaps a bit of algebra, which the students are just learning and shouldn't have a calc for (and the 73 can't do the problems anyway) The 73, by the description on the site, is a 4-function calc with a few scientific functions, a grapher, and a command line interface. While the interface is easier to use than a pocket calc, it really isn't worth carrying the huge, battery-eating calc.

Speaking of batteries... I have a $7US calc that I got in 5th grade, used constantly from there to mid-seventh grade (when I got my 89) and it still runs perfectly on the two factory-installed AA batteries.

OMG. I go through a set of batteries every two weeks, sometimes one/week on my SE.

Holy p00p! How much do you play games on that thing? My digital camera.... OMG, I swear that thing needs replaced batteries every 5 days. Especially when I go "spying" around the house. It's great to catch a family member doing something stupid/funny/BAD... Also great for blackmail. I have about seven of my sister crying... wow, I sound really satanic. ];-)

no_one, blackmailing? What's going on?!?
Speaking of batteries, I tend to have to replace mine every 3-4 months or so. Then again, I don't use my calculator quite as much as I used to. Before, I would replace batteries every month or so. Replace probably isn't the right word to use since I use rechargeables ...

I used to use rechargeable alkalines because they are the only rechargeable batts that offer a full 1.5v, but then my local radioshack discontinued them for some unknown reason.

-- RAYOVAC RENEWALS, if you see any, are what I used. They lasted for about 7 months (maybe that's why they discontinued them: people didn't come and buy new ones). Get them ($5-10 US) and a universal charger ($20-25 US) if you see them, they're great. Saves you a lot of money. However, you will also need another set of batts to put in the calc overnight while they ar charging.

though you only get 1.2v from NiMH batteries, they can be rechaged more than alkaline and I've never noticed slow down when the batteres are close to dead. They only take about an hour to charge.

Those are also what I used. Try your local target (if there's any in the area). That's where I got my batteries.

Yeah, target has everything. You know what would be great? Eight rechargable AAA 1.5 volt batteries for you calc, that way, when one group runs out, switch them, and charge the ones that aren't being used. You'll never have to buy batteries again! Yay! n/m :)

Nah, you might as well just buy 4 and recharge the batteries while you're sleeping. That's what I do.

I buy 4 Sky batteries about once every two months.

But, if you leave the batteries out overnight, won't the memory clear? You could always put another "spare pair" in for the night and take them out when the newly charged batts are ready (slimey's suggestion).

Doesn't clear my memory. Your backup battery must be dead. They're supposed to last only about 5 years, and since you have a TI-82, it's probably high time that you got that battery changed.

Rechargables are good :) They're cheaper to use than buying tons of those $1.50 4-AAA battery packs. About a year or two ago, they never cost $1.50. The price moved up too fast. *cry*

4 or 5 hours a day, but recently it hasn't been working.

That's about the time that I spend on ticalc.org each day! Well, maybe a little more. Why isn't it working? Did you overuse it? lol

Isn't that so weird how some batteries do that... and then other ones go out in a few days? I guess you have to take into consideration that a simple calc doesn't use as much power as a graphing calculator. My TI-82 gets its batteries replaced every 5 months. Since I use it for programming and homework mainly, I don't waste the batteries as much (though Penguins is fun to play during Bio). My TI-89 is very good with batteries. I use it quite a bit every day, and I only replaced its batteries twice (got it two years ago).

The power comsumption is rather decent even when you play games. I wish TI let the V200 run off of AA instead of AAA. You would hardly need to change them because they hold about 3x as much.

Really? I guess that makes sense, but then why do AAA batteries cost more? You think that people who make electronics would create them to use AA batteries, as an alternative. Supply and demand is mean. It raises price of poor, innocent batteries (that sounded... odd).

AAA batteries cost more because there is less of a demand for them on the market, so the business of their creation is a bit more specialized, thus raising the price. Also, it may have to do with the fact that they are smaller and they still each need to maintain a constant electrical output of 1.5 volts.

Its probably something around those lines.

How many volts to AA put out? No, wait... I have some about 5 feet away from my chair...

Yup, they're 1.5v also.

AA, AAA, C, D etc all give out 1.5V
The recheargable options give out 1.2V only though.
A company (ALBA, I think it was) developed recheargable batteries that could be recharged indefinately - but never released them because all other battery companies would have gone bust :)
Most rechargeable batteries charge up to about 1000 times, then they die.

Aw... they should have given them to me!

The difference is capacity which is measured in miliamperes an hour. NiMH AAA=600 mah, NiMH AA>=1800 mah

I did a lot of pre-alg in grades 4-7. Like everybody else has been saying... you can do the work yourself, but using the calcualtor is easy.

What I do, if I want to learn a specfic approach or equation, formula, method, blah blah, etc. then I wrote a program. I did this for completing squares, quadratic forumla, completing the square, simplfying roots, and I was going to do one for systems of equations, but I was too lazy :) All the stuff above is simple, but it takes a while to do. That's why the calc comes in handy. To write the program earns finishing a 100 problem worksheet in a minute using your prorgram.

Wait, you mean there are people who buy the calculators for the math rather than the games?!?

I think that TI should just stop making new calculators and improve the existing ones. I still don't understand why they would rather make a TI-73 rather than update the TI-86 ... I'm sure that if middle school kids are going to use graphing calculators, they should be given at least 83+'s, rather than the 73, since they'd have to use them in high school anyway. Why make them learn how to use two different calculators when one will suffice?

Why make a TI-86 when you can make a TI-89? Apparently, the 89 is beter for them (and that means better for consumers) for the buck. Personally, when I get anything bigger than the 83+ SE, it will be an 89, I'm going to skip 86. Why such a marginal upgrade as apposed to the upgrade to 89 (an upgrade to 92 or v200 would be insane) at least for most people

The 83+ and the 89 aren't even similar. The 86 is closer to the 83+ except for the menus, lowercase typing, wider screen, etc...

It took me about a week to get good with my TI-89 because it was so different ;-)

I like the 86 - a lot.

I do, but the different menus scare me :) If I had one, I'd get used to it, probably.

Yes, TI-86 menues are terrifying :)

Fortunately, TI-89 menues are not.

The 89 menus are nice to view, and they appear on the screen as an actually window... but they're slow. Do [2nd]+[MEM] , [ESC] , [2nd]+[MEM] , [ESC] (repeat as necessary) and you'll see that they load pretty slow compared to the other menu-styles for the other models. It's not really a big issue, but it's interesting, especially when your batteries are low.

The menu routines are larger on AMS calculators, but the speed is nothing compared to the ease.

They are quite cool... now all the AMS needs is a pointer and you've got a full WIMP GUI! (er.. maybe not - only the V200 has icons, doesn't it?)

I think AMS 2.08 has them for the TI-89. Kerm needs to make us a 68k mouse ;-) I'd probably use it too, just because I'm strange :) LOL

I'd use it too :)

The 2.08 for the 89 has it. I too would use the mouse.

I think you misconstrued my post (or maybe I wasn't clear enough)
In my opinion, TI should never have made the 83+ in the first place. If I remember my calculator history correctly, the 86 combined features from the 85 and the 83, as well as adding more features to make it more powerful. But then TI released the 83+, which, although it was an upgrade to the 83 (and about the only thing different was the Flash ROM), was essentially a downgrade to the 86 (except for the Flash). So, pretty much using your own argument, why get an 83+ when you can get an 86? And I wouldn't exactly call the 86 a marginal upgrade to the 83+. Sure, there are some similarities between the 83+ and the 86 (remember, both share features with the 83), but all of the Z80 calculators share features. But the 86 is many times more powerful than the 83+. Why else would TI say that the 83+ is for high school math while the 86 is for college and engineering?

I guess not many people liked the menu style stuff on the 86. It takes a while to get used to. They should make a TI-86+ w/flash ROM just to complete that series.

Maybe it's just because I've used the 86 so much, but to me, the 86 style menus make a lot more sense than the 83+ menus, not to mention they're prettier. I still don't see why the 86 menus are so hard to use ...

I like the menus on the 86!

Like I said before, I'd need a TI-86 to appreciate the menu-style. I like the 89 menus, even though they load disturbingly slow. (Probably written in C)

I've *got* an 86
;>

I figured as much ;-) I touched a real one... but that was it :) Everything else I've done with them was on VTI *gasp*

A TI-83+ can become equal to or surpass a TI-86 due to the extremely large capacity to be electronically upgraded. Once the wise user has maxed out the TI-83+, he or she is usually ready to move onto the TI-89. Personally, I think the TI-86 was a waste of time.

Don't dis the TI-83+!
They are far more useful (10,000 users can't all be wrong), they have Flash ROM for upgrading, they have crash protection, there is more support for the model, and they are much easier to use than the extremely confusing TI-85 or TI-86 menu system.

While we are on the subject on how we should teach the next generation in mathematics without the need of a calculator, I'd like to add my 10b cents:

First off, we should NOT be teaching children that the first 10 numbers (traditional Arabic-based numbers) are 1-10. The first 10 numbers are 0-9; 10 is merely a repetition of the pattern. I know someone (actually, my mom knows him) who has created a mental algrithm to solve extremely large sums and products, as well as differences and quotients, faster than an accountant can type the values into a calculator. He holds the world record for mental number-crunching. If we refined our teaching methods, there would be less of a need for four-function or scientific calculators, and more of a need for graphing calculators.

Also, with this algrithm, children will not need to ever memorize a single multiplication table. I forget how the algrithm works, but I can find it out if anyone is curious.

I'm curious!!
Tell me!!

The ti-73 is not aimed at students. But at bulk purchase by teachers who are convinced that it will help class.

Personally I was not required to have a graphing calc till I was a junior in highschool. But I had one earlier anyways. But my little sister was provided an 83 from her school in the 8th grade. So ti keeps moving thier target age lower.

Ti has a nice racket going: Sell thousands of calculators to schools, Then sell thousands more to college kids.

I don't see a problem in what TI is doing--it's only business to sell whatever you can for a profit. The problem is the people using (demanding) them. Everyone want to do the least amount of work in the least amount of time. Pretty soon, people no longer learn the Pythagorean therom, such a basic mathematical thereom, and end up only knowing that you input A and B, and get C. What happens if you are given B and C, "Sorry, out of luck."?

As I recall, the majority of K-6 math work I did would be problems like 3+7*6-5, or simpler, or maybe 7/pi, convert 22/9 to a mixed number/decimal/percent. Then math got harder with exponents and radicals, etc, point-slope, slope-intercept, etc. (I'm still not seeng the grapher)

If I were teaching a 4-6 grade math class, my students would have a a four function arithmatic calculator, and nothing more. I would NOT buy any 73 Explorer, and if my students needed to make pie graphs, line graphs, etc, they would have something calc graphing paper, not graphing calculator. Students need to learn to do the math before they learn the shortcuts, that will teach them to apply themselves when they have A and C instead fo A and B.

In the UK, we're not allowed to use the grapher on pure1 papers, only on pure2 at A-Level (only a TI-83 or TI-83 Plus, nothing higher). I bought my TI-83 Plus after GCSE so that it could help me - and it has been invaluable. If during a prep you have a question on integration, work it all out and then you check it on the integration function on the calculator to see where you went wrong (if at all). I also use it if I get the wrong answer in a differentiation question, say, and graph the f(x) and then dy/dx (the one I found) to see if that was right.
However, saying all that, I never use it just to get the answer straight off - that is only cheating yourself of marks in the real thing!

For many, many functions, students shouldn't need a grapher to graph them. Low order polynomials can be factored, even with complex roots, e^x and trigonometric functions are basic forms that can be shifted and stretched, etc. Even for basic integrations and derivatives, you can check by algebra, not graphing. If you take the derivative of your integral, you had better get your original function. Thus, especially for children so young, such a calculator is unnecessary, maybe even harmful. Multiplication tables!

What I meant was that during preps, I will do the question using good ol' pen and paper, and then check my answer by putting the problem into my calculator. This is so that if I was wrong I can check as to what I am doing wrong.

In Britain, is "prep" the equivalent of homework in the US? Just wondering ;-) Come to think of it, neither names make sense, since you do most homework in study hall, anyway.

Uh-huh... checking your problems with the calc after doing the work on pencil and paper is also a good approach. I do that often as well. The answers are in the back of our books, so that's also another method to check your answers.

To give another perspective on the whole issue:

To do something on pencil and paper teaches you to do the math,
To do something on the calc teaches you to use a tool which will be very common more-or-less depending on what career you choose

If you do all your math by pencil and paper, you'll not learn how to use a very important tool,
If you do all your math by calculator, you will not only miss important lessons of basic mathematics, but you will also miss out on a lot of logical reasoning skills

So, what you oght to do is just what was stated, do it on pencil and paper, then check it on the calculator. One of my former teachers allowed us to do only the first problem written out and then calculate the rest after the chapter on that section was completed. This made sense since in the following chapters that's not what was expected to be learned, and what we learned often integrates previous chapters.

I wonder why the 73 has pie-graph functions, but the 89 and 92+ (their most advanced calcs) don't have anything in that direction. One could write a program to do that for oneself, but that wouldn't be what they want, i.e., making the user work less.

I want pie-graphing functionality, if only for the sake of coolness.

I think the best approach for a teacher is to make sure the students understand the pencil and paper approach, and then utilize the graphing calculator and show the students the *magic* of how to make the problem work itself on the calculator. This lets the students fully understand the process AND how to use the graphing calculator to attack the problem five times faster (I guess the speed depends on the type of problem).

I wish our teachers were that supportive :(
Actually, I wish our teacher knew how to use the damn things!
No, we have to do it all on scientific calcs. Otherwise, we get beheaded. Maybe I should write a 'y=' button blocker, so I could use my calc, just not the grapher...

They won't let you use the grapher? That's MEAN! The only way I can think of to block the Y= screen is with an interrupt routine, but I never wrote one before, so I wouldn't have a clue on how to go about it.

Yeah. I'll agree that stuff like 7*3-2 should definatley be done in the head or on paper. If someone responds after looking and seeing that I have a TI-92 Plus, I have a compulsive attraction to the most powerful thing, and it was/is the most powerful (the Voyage 200 is just exactly the same if I am correct, but with some crap for other subjects, which, let's all admit, noone really needs). I use a calculator for Trig, graphing tedious stuff, speed math, calculus functions, games, random fractions like 123.5/237, and the occasional use of typing an english paper in class(we're not permitted laptops).

The TI-73 Explorer, is less a real entity, then a missing peice of the portfolio. I think that it will fail miserably, as it is probably at a similar price as the TI-83+, but offers less features (to my impressions). I also do not see a market for it. No person in my middle school uses anything less than a TI-83/82.

In grades 1-1st half of 7, I never used a calculator, as all math could easily be done in the head, or on paper. I don't frequlently use it even in 8th grade. I think that the greatest part of calculators is definatley their use as a shortcut. I was recently taking a math contest (VML for the 8th grade) on which I used my calculator, and one of my school's math teachers remarked that me using it was "like swatting flies with a sledgehammer". Nuff' Said.

I agree that some math should not be done with a calculator. Before I got my TI, I could do practically any math in my head or on paper. Then when I had my TI, I found that I would pull it out to do relatively simple math problems. So figure that up to a point, calculators should not be used in elementary/middle school as part of the math class curriculum. High school algebra, geometry, and calculaus is another thing, as is programming, but there are some things that calculators should not have to be used for.

Yeah... I found myself typing 97+50 in on my TI-89 once... then stopped, and hit myself ;-) See, that's sad.

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VML is a programming language ;-)

I don't think I used a calculator for schoolwork until around 7th grade, when I started writing programs to do work for me. I remember when we did right-angle trig in alg 1... it was so easy, but it took a while to solve for the whole triangle, so I wrote a program to do solve the whole triangle for me, from any two values (including legs, hypotenuse, angles, etc.). Everybody wondered how I finished the test in about five minutes :) Writing a program like that is much more valuable(sp?) than doing lots of problems because you learn more about the subject than you intended to.

I agree. Besides, usually the kids that write the programs to do the stuff for them are the smart kids that already get how to do the stuff.
I did the same thing back in 7th grade ... I would just write programs while the teacher talked. I wish I were back in those days ... Algebra I is SO easy compared to Calculus ...

Yeah, when I get into calculus, I think I may be writing a lot of programs to aid me again. Next year in geometry, I'm probably going to make one to do all of the formulas for area, perimiter, volume, whatever... (I think I know them all now, anyway). I wish you were allowed to write programs to help you in other subjects (whether I'm allowed to or not hasn't stopped me LOL)

Yes... for example, the horrible formula:
V=Ue^(-t/CR)
in electronics. Just knock out a little bit of code that asks for the variables and produces the answer :)

If they asked you to do that by hand then they're nuts! Raising e to a power by hand (espeically a possible fraction in the exponent) is MEAN. I'd write a program too :)

I assume that V=volts...

Where can I find that program?

Uh, I doubt I uploaded it, but you can check anyway. I remember that I made two versions... one produced correct answers, and the other didn't. If I uploaded the newer one, I'm fine. :)

In my high school calculus course, near the beginning of the year, the teacher gave us 10 minutes for a quiz on elementary trig functions, four-function stuff--basically stuff that it's actually slower to use a calculator for. Anyone in the class could have completed it in 7 or 8 minutes without a calculator, but everyone but me and one other person took their calculators out. The other person and I finished in 6 or 7 minutes, and nobody else finished on time. Everybody else thinks twice before taking a calculator out now.

It makes me feel smart when people type sin(30°) because I most likely would NOT (unless I'm very tired and not thinking correctly)

Neither would I, although I'm a little rusty with trig right now (never really did like it anyway). Then again, now in math, we don't get nice angles like that. We get to use variables. So no more easy math problems. :(

That's why you use the calc programs to do it for you >;-)

Especially when they don't show work. :)
I actually prefer to do things by hand, and then check on calculator, mainly because on the AP test I won't get a calculator for part of the test. :(

On the AP test, you don't get to use a calculator for part of it? Oh... not good :)

I believe it's the Multiple-choice part of the test (ie, half the test).

True. I took the AP Calc test last year and recieved a 5. The muliple choise is without a calc but the only calculations you have to do are some simple integrals and derivatives. The 89 provides the neccessary amount of help on the Free Response so you don't stess out too much. BTW I'm a junior in HS right now. As long as you don't become dependant on the calculator you will do fine on the test.

.5!

Well, the point of taking math in school is to learn how to do the problem. The calculator is for assisting you in the problem, or in some cases, doing the whole thing for you. But, that's not a problem, in my opinion. In a real-life situation, you wouldn't do it all on pencil & paper. You'd use a calculator. I agree that it's a good skill to know how to do the math without the calculator, but if you needed to find a median-median line for a set of 10 data points with lots of decimals (and you needed a close-to-exact answer as you could get), would you use pencil and paper, or a calculator? And then there's the solve function... you should know how to solve the equation yourself, but it's there to make you life easier. Outside of math class, pencil and paper work is mostly irrelevant, though you should know how to approach a problem that way to know exactly what the equation means or for other reasons.

The TI-73 is for middle school kids, mostly. To us, it's annoying to have to go to a TEXT menu to print a single character variable to the screen, but for younger kids, that's probably an easier approach, since some kids might be confused by all the different modes (2nd, alpha, diamond, shift...). The only thing that really stands out that might make the TI-73 easier to use to a middle school student is their way of using fractions. You don't have to type 1+(3/4) or 7/4 to get 1.75, you could use their fraction special keys that do that for you, which to me, is a pain, but to middle schoolers, it might make a problem easier to type in and that might give them a less chance of mistyping a problem, leading to an incorrect answer.

And, I agree, if you can't do 7*3-2 in your head, you should really review the math you did 6-8 years ago (more, for some of us).

I talk a lot sometimes, don't I? ;-)

Regarding confusion between modes, uh, I was 9 when I got my TI-89 (christmas 1999 IIRC), and I never got confused on em. Then again, I read the manual, and I was probably then the only guy with a graphing calc at school.

If they can't do 7*3-2 in their head, a calculator won't help them, they'll probably still fail. In my opinion, calculators don't help that much because you still have to understand what you're learning about to do it on a calc. Calculators are the future, deal with it, or you could just sit there trying to figure out everything in your head. No offense but this topic has always made me angry.

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