I know this is really unrelated, but I was at MSDN recently and I discovered that Visual Studio .NET (or Version 7.0 in other words) is coming out in a week!

I was naturally interested, and I found out that it will have Visual C# with it (a combination of VB and VC++)

C# was originally written by Borland and if I remember right, is even more object-oriented than C++ and is a conglomerate of C++, Pascal, and Delphi.

Do you think it'll ever be possible to get a C++ or a C# version of TIGCC?

I don't think that's really possible, but it sounds VERY interesting. Looks like my high school programming classes will have to change soon....

--red40gamma

Geez dude, get a life. Do you realise what kind of power these little calculators have? Max 15 mhz Z80, and 12 mhz 68k. You do know that these things have a miniscule amount of storage space right? Ok, so now we start throwing OOP into the picture... 1 program could eat up the entire memory easily. I think for a calculator ASM is probabally the perfect language to get all of the speed & size requirement you need, but C at least is a functional language and does not require all the overhead of the OO languages.

Also... C# is sorta closed source.... don't know if there is a specification. I doubt that GCC (GNU Compiler Collection) will have support for C# anytime soon.

What are people going to ask for next... a JVM on the 89... oh yea, how about a 3d accelerator... a Ti 500 would be nice... or how about a Sound Blaster Audigy.... or how about Mozilla... yea Mozilla... thats what should be ported to the 89 next... gawd.... get a life people

I think that OOP libraries, rather than OOP programming itself create huge and slow code.
We have experience of VC++ MFC,Delphi VCL and Visual BASIC library as libraries that generate huge code which is often separated into several DLLs and OCXs.

The examples of OOP languages with short executable code can be Turbo Pascal 6.0 for DOS and Turbo Pascal for Windows 1.0. They used OOP libraries called TurboVision and OWL. The empty code generated by them is cca 45 K for DOS and 15 K for Windows, not so much more compared with code that does same function (mouse, keyboard and window handling) written from scratch.

In fact, a kind of OOP there is already in TIGCC. C structures can contain pointers to functions, so you can have simething like

a->field=2;
a->callme(2,3);

Someone will say: "There is no inheritance, though". If you created structure b which contains the structure a with addition of one new function, you will have messy syntax

b.a->field=2;
b.a->callme(2,3);
b->callmenew(6,7)

However, you can overcome it with few #define comands
so later you can have code

B_field=2;
B_callme(2,3);
B_callmenew(6,7);

And where is the polymorphism?

I'm sorry, but OOP isn't just classes, and pieces of code and variables grouped together. You can do that in most assemblers too. That isn't OOP anyway.

OOP is a _language_ level abstraction, to help in the design and reusability of code.

It has to do with what the programming language supports, it hasn't to do with the generated code really.That is a common misunderstanding.

You are very right in that most of the bloating has to do with the standard libraries, but still, OOP isn't very usable for the calcs.
programming OOP always generates more overhead in the code, it is a tradeoff to the advantages in the design process.
OOP isn't for small platforms and small programs in projects for one person, it is to help in large projects with many people involved, and to ease design.
(I think C++ had partly failed in this, other languages like java and Ada implement OOP better)

And.. if you do a C++ compiler for the calc, people will instantly bug you and ask "where is cout?" and want the standard libraries :)

Yet one interesting idea for OOP in standard C is given in link above, to define abstract classes with #define and inherit with struct inside. It includes polimorphism, but this method is not suitable for multilevel hierarchies.

I agree with you that it is not enough to call it OOP to be OOP, but see for example the famous article (first google it)

ARE THE EMPEROR'S NEW CLOTHES OBJECT ORIENTED? by Scott Guthery

where he stated that even FORTRAN had elements of OOP, using ENTRY statement.

OOP from scratch is useless for single programmer unless he is a student who wants to learn OOP. The most of people use OOP in three ways
1. To coordinate work between several programmers
2. For development and usage of the program libraries
3. To learn it

The first one is not so important. I can not imagine project on TI calc which will require contribution of more than 3 people (maybe port of Linux which is anyway non-OOP).

The second one is important but not much. The classic non-OOP libraries are harder to use (functions with many parameters, and even worse callback functions), but they are much faster and with shorter code. (see the joke about gorilla and banana in Gutherry's article).

And for the third one, calculator platform is not the easiest place to start with, but if you want this, the link above is enough.

There already IS a JVM on the 89. I think you'd better look for it...

it's actually called the Waba VM, but the syntax is nearly identical; and as with all high-level languages, not every processor/compiler supports the same commands as all the others. It's Java; just with less features than the normal computer version.

I am not saying that OOP ahla C++/Java absolutely can't exist, I am however saying that it would be unlikely that anything good can be developed that people would actually want to use. It would be difficult (if not impossible) to get OOP code small enough so that it will fit on the calculator with other programs that people want to use. OOP may work on the 89/92+ but it may not be the best solution, get my point

ahla??? you mean á la?

Í åm †hé kíñg øƒ †hé wö®|С¡¡

Oh my.

Í kñøw, ïšñ† ï† jùš† wøñÐ鮃ù|¿¿¿

Maybe I should stop memorizing the ASCII character map.

Ñð ψǻŷ Ðüðęﺃ

... didn't quite work.

I realized that. Darn (as opposed to the other one)

ßWÅHÅHÅHÅ!¡!¡!¡!

Acutally, I'm not typing in the &#whatever;, I'm using [ALT] + whatever the keycode is on the number pad, then let go of alt. Works on windows computers. Hey, do the &thingies; work? I'm going to try using a lt and a gt

< and >

Dangit, didn't work. *sigh*

¤¶§ !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789
:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUV
WXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrs
tuvwxyz{|}~ÇüéâäàåçêëèïîìÄÅÉæ
ÆôöòÿùÿÖÜ¢£¥PƒáíóúñѪº¿_¬½¼¡«
»_¦

...oh my...

...ym ho...

poop is a palindrome

so are:
chickenekcihc (hehe)
aibohphobia
evitative
party-trap
redivider
rotavator
spacecaps
TATTARRATTAT
DETANNATED
A nut for a jar of tuna

How about

abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz yxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba

what about:
121
12321
1234321
123454321
12345654321
1234567654321
123456787654321
12345678987654321
1234567890987654321
or:
aba
abcba
abcdcba
abcdedcba
abcdefedcba...

Able was I ere I saw Elba.
Put Eliot's toilet up.
A six is a six is a six is a six is a six is a...
Madam, I'm Adam.
A Santa dog lived as a devil god at NASA.
A Toyota! Race fast, safe car. A Toyota.
A coup d'etat saved devastated Puoca.
A dog! A panic in a pagoda!
A man, a pain, a mania - Panama.
A man, a plan, a butt tub. Anal Panama!
A man, a plan, a canal: Panama!
A man, a plan, a cat, a ham, a yak, a yam, a hat, a canal--Panama!
A new order began, a more Roman age bred Rowena.
A slut nixes sex in Tulsa.
Alan Alda stops racecar, spots ad: "Lana-L.A."
Analytic Paget saw an inn in a waste-gap city, Lana.
Daedalus: nine, Peninsula: dead.
Dammit, I'm mad!
Damn! I, Agassi, miss again! Mad!
Deirdre wets altar of St. Simons - no mists, for at last ewer dried.
Depardieu, go razz a rogue I draped.
Desserts I desire not, so long no lost one rise distressed.
Did I strap red nude, red rump, also slap murdered underparts? I did!
Do good? I? No! Evil anon I deliver. I maim nine more hero-men in Saginaw, sanitary sword a-tuck, Carol, I--lo!--rack, cut a drowsy rat in Aswan. I gas nine more hero-men in Miami. Reviled, I (Nona) live on. I do, O God!
Doc, note I dissent: a fast never prevents a fatness. I diet on cod.
Dogma in my hymn: I am God!
Drat Saddam, a mad dastard!
Ed, I saw Harpo Marx ram Oprah W. aside.
Embargos are macabre. Sad Nell, listen O! not to no nets--I'll lend a Serb a camera so grab me!
Er, go on, trap Steven in, I say. Me oh my! Nor can an "air" bee sew. We see, Brian. An acronym? Hoe my asinine vet's part? No, ogre!
Gert, I saw Ron avoid a radio-van - or was it Reg?
Go hang a salami, I'm a lasagna hog.
Go! Desire vagina! Man I gave. Rise, dog.
Greta? Education? No, it a cud eater, G.
I saw desserts; I'd no lemons, alas no melon. Distressed was I.
I saw thee, madame, eh? 'Twas I.
Is Don Adams mad? (A nod.) Si!
KC, answer DNA loop award. Emit time. Draw a Pool. Andrew, snack.
Kay, a red nude, peeped under a yak.
Lewd I did live, evil did I dwel. (yes, it's missing an l on dwell, but... meh.)
Lid of fade, metallic soot, emit Garret-simple, help Mister Ragtime to oscillate me, daffodil.
"Miry rim! So many daffodils," Delia wailed, "slid off a dynamo's miry rim!"
Named undenominationally rebel, I rile Beryl. La, no! I tan. I'm, O Ned, nude man!
"Naomi, sex at noon taxes!" I moan.
Never odd or even.
Niagara, O roar again.
No stetson hats. Operas are post. Ah, no stetson.
No witness--a fool. A nasal aria's time emits air. Alas, an aloof assent: I won.
No, I met System Ion.
O Bobo! Get INDY clear! He'd render a red nerd eh? RA! El Cid nite! Go Bobo!
O tarts! A castrato!
Parcel bare ferret up mock computer-referable crap.
Party boobytrap.
Plan no damn Madonna LP.
Poor Dan is in a droop.
Raw, evil dam on Niagara. Gain net time! Sub bus, emit ten Niagara! Gain no mad, live war!
Re-paper.
Red rum, sir, is murder.
"Red?" "No." "Who is it?" "'Tis I." "Oh, wonder!"
Rise, Sir Lapdog! Revolt, lover! God, pal, rise, sir!
Rise, take lame female Kate, sir.
Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas!
Sis, ask Costner to not rent socks "as is"!
Sit on a potato pan, Otis.
Snug & raw was I ere I saw war & guns.
Star? Come Donna Melba, I'm an amiable man, no Democrats!
T. Eliot, top bard, notes putrid tang emanating, is sad. I'd assign it a name: gnat dirt upset on drab pot-toilet.
Tarzan raised Desi Arnaz' rat.
Was raw tap ale not a reviver at one lap at Warsaw?
Yo! Banana Boy!

Palidromic Battle Cry for the 2002 War Against Terror:

"Ram O Hamas, Osamah, Omar!"


Enid and Edna dine:

YREKA BAKERY
Une Menu


Ah, come, Mocha!
Bel Paese a Pleb
Dear Bo Bread
E-trot Torte
Eda Nomel's Lemonade
Eel, Urbane Hen a Brulee
Feeble el Beef
Hot Rat Tart, Oh!
Le Gab Bagel
Lead et Roti Torte Deal.
Lion in Oil
Noel O' Pan Napoleon
Not Lit Stilton
Not Now Won-Ton
On Ice 'cino
Parkay Yak Rap
Reed Deer
Roti de Pup Editor
Self-Furnace Pecan Ruffles
Sniff'um Muffins
Snub Buns
Stun Odd Donuts
Wet Sable Elba Stew
Yen O' Honey

Nipson anomemata me monan opsin. (Wash the sin as well as the face.)

In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni. (We enter the circle after dark and are consumed by fire.)

Quid est veritas? Est vir qui adest. (What is truth? It is this man here.) (used by early Christians when referring to Christ)

Doctor Reubenstein was shocked and dismayed when he answered the ringing telephone, only to hear a strange, metallic, alien voice say, "Yasec iovn eilacilla temeg! Nartsa raehoty lnoenoh pelet gnig, nirehtde rewsnaehn ehw. Deya! Msid! Dnadek cohssaw nietsne buerro, tcod? (OK, yeah, that's a stretch.)

http://www.palindromes.org/

Ñò Ÿõü @®€ñ’†, Ï @M !

HØW ÐÍÐ ¥ØÛ KÑØW ÅßØÛ† M¥ ÍMþÈÅ©HMÉц?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?

what about windows for the 89? LOL HUAHAHAHAHA!

Maybe to port Windows CE, because AFAIK there is source code available.

Or, something more feasible, TI89 as the graphic terminal to windows computer...

I already made one, except I called it the "Windows Virus." Well, not really. I actually like windows (I've never really tried Linux, though).
Boy, have I asked for it.

C# is Java just with a few commands changed here and there. It's even compiled to an IML, just like Java. And it even runs in some sort of VM too. I wonder how MS designed this "new" product... copy paste copy paste copy paste...

First thing you have to do when MS comes out with a new product, is checking if something similar doesn't already exist. And surprisingly, their rival Sun has a product named J2EE. Now I must admit that MS has a better way of commercialising their (read: Sun's) .NET technology. In fact, you're the living prove of that. You had no idea about J2EE, nor did my monthly computer magazine. All they said was how good .NET was and how MS did a great job on that, while all they did was copy paste copy paste copy paste...

I know what your talking about. I get annoyed when people make a big deal out of MS's "inovations". Oy.

Did you hear about that great new MS inovation! Boy, it's great! They even came up with the idea! (they said that other program that you can download for free that was made ten years ago stole their idea)
Isn't it just the best! I'm going to buy it ten times!

Did you hear about that great new MS inovation! Boy, it's great! They even came up with the idea! (they said that other program that you can download for free that was made ten years ago stole their idea)
Isn't it just the best! I'm going to buy it ten times!
check my website!