The main problem with TI-83+ owners (hey everybody, don't get mad yet:P I'm not referring to ALL TI-83+ owners, read on!) is that many students in high school and even middle school (although if you have a graphing calc in middle school, odds are you don't need it) have them.

As most people know, middle school/high school students can be relatively immature, especially the ones who are short-sighted enough not to research what they are buying before buying a $60 item like the 83+

One GLANCE at the ticalc web site (not that hard to find:P) will let you know that if you bought the calc for games... don't get an 83+.

The difference I see between HP users and TI users is that the only people who can figure out how to USE an HP calculator are usually mature, patient people in high school - professional level, and thus HP programmers have barely any problems like this.

I'm sure they receive many requests, but no stupid questions or flames.

As for the 83+ users... if you bought an 83+ why on earth are you complaining about it! You knew what you were getting into before you got it, and odds are if your parents bought it for you, they saw that the 83+ doesn't have many games, and bought it BECAUSE of that.

Heh, we don't want your GPA's to be dropping further than they already are:P do we?

Anyway, my 3.14159 cents... I could go even further into the decimal of PI... because I have a TI-89 and I can scroll for pages, and pages, and pages, and pages...

I would have to agree with you totally on this one if you want to buy a calculator for gaming get an 86. I only disagree on one point that is this is my 3.(120)digits of pi (memorized and counting on my 92 plus because you can just use the ti-89 graphlink software and send that pi memorizing program.)

Also I would like to add that there is no right for anyone to have games on their calc it is a priveledge. No programer owes anyone anything.

I think that most people who program calc games expect the majority of their users to be middle or high school students. As a calc programmer myself, I certainly am not shocked or upset by this fact. Also, most calc programmers probably are in the same grades themselves, or at least were when they started calc programming. If we oppose all calcs that are widely used by middle/high school students to play games, then we might as forget TI calcs entirely.

When it comes to purchasing calculators, not everyone's choice is based on games. Some people will get their first calculator before knowing much at all about games and only learn about the games later. Also, I don't believe that the TI-83+ is really a bad choice for games. The reason is that porting from a TI-83 to TI-83+ is a fairly simple matter, much simpler than TI-85 to TI-82/83 for example. Therefore, someone who wants games wouldn't be making a bad choice to use the TI-83+ since it's reasonable to expect ports to be made soon. Since the 83+ can run games out of archived memory, it's much better (once the ports are done) because you have more storage and can thus have a lot more games on at once.

As I final note, I'd like to say something about calcs bought by parents. In my case, I got my father to by me a TI-92 just so that I could make games on it. So maybe parents buy their kids 83+'s to force them to learn to program instead of just using programs made by others, though some I doubt this.

well...i'd also like to clear up some speculation on the origins of the 83+ purchases. as I work electronics at staples, around the back to school time i saw many parents and kids coming in looking for graphing calculators. we had in stock probably 12 83's and like 50 83+'s. it seemed that every load day we recieved more and more 83+'s. occasionally we would get a box of 86's but mostly 83+'s. the result? because teachers here in northern california are telling their algebra 2 students to get an 83, they would buy the 83. once we ran out of 83's they had no choice but to buy an 83+. no matter how much explaining i did to both the parents and kids about the benefits of perhaps getting an 86 or spending the extra money for an 89, they refused and stuck with the 83+ usually with a snide comment like "im never going to read that instruction manual!"
that presents another problem...ignorance in the genral population.

im sure that you people who are in high school or have been recently (i graduated last year) and had access to a graph link were highly regarded in your math class. even if you didn't know how to program, you knew how to put games on your calc and transfer them to other people. as far as i knew, i was the only one who spent the 35 bucks at staples, formerly the only place to purchase a graphlink, and the satisfaction of knowing i lowered the entire class of 99's gpa was good enough for me. thats how these programmers feel, but on a different scale. they provide the means for you to provide the means for your friends...
your friends rely on you, yet it doesn't stop there as you rely on the programmers. if you boss them around and flame them thats the same as some irate classmate yelling at you because the games you put on his calc somehow erased all his chemistry "notes".

simply put,
you know how it feels so back off.

jake

I wanted my calc because it had flash memory and it was the highest our school lets you use for algerbra. Lowest was a ti 82.

Well that's because you don't really need a graphing calc for algebra 1, Algebra 1 is where you learn how to do stuff that later on you'll usually do on the calc (just like in kindergarten, you learn adding, but nowadays you seldom bother adding 10 digit numbers manually)

I would've suggested getting a Graphing calc in either geometry or AII

actually in our class it's a requirement, buy one or rent one otherwise just sit there.

TI-83's are rediculous, for this reason: They are required by our local High School for any class Geometery or over. You are NOT ALLOWED to use the amazing TI-89 for ANYTHING, as it does symbolic logic. SO, instead of providing a piece of s**t 83 or 83+ to use, they make you rent one from the school, or buy one yourself. They SUCK! They were made years and years ago, and everybody knows how old technology is. Just about as good as old teachers.....

don't see you much either

The 83+ was made the year you wrote that...

Keep boycotting !!
I see it in school, they just got the shippment of 83+'s and these supid losers rush to me for games. "I just want games." It's pure ignorance really. There are exceptions,but the reason for this this that the 83+ only came out and the programmers who give a crap already have a calc.
Stick with the 83
Dan Rudolph
causeofdeath@hotmail.com
Bring it on !

Yeah, keep boycotting.

James

nobody who flames deserves games

No Games For Flames
No Games For Flames
Okay now that I stopped marching around my room I have to agree with you no one who flames should get games.
No Games For Flames
No Games For Flames

Whoa....... it rhymes.
Cool. :)

--BlueCalx

I agree with Nick completely.

wow, that sentence has fit perfectly in two posts now :)

-vejita

LOL about the "agreements" with Nick.

You guys don't get it do you? All this crap comes with the territory. If you decide to become a programmer and a good one at that and decide to release your programs for public use, why shouldn't the public demenad 100% accuracy? I expect my Windows 98 to work perfectly everytime I boot it. I expect my Starcraft game to be able to play starcraft. When it doesn't, I complain. Why? Because someone out there said "Hey, use this because its cool" not only do I give them respect for creating such a masterpiece. I expect the programmer(s) to maintain their integrity over what they have created. I have made several programs and I get asked dumb questions all the time? Its no reason to "boycott" anything. The fact is, not eveyone know what you know. They never will. So the dumb questions qill never end. It comes with the turf, just like a coach gets booed for loosing a football games-yet you don't see the coach "boycotting" anything do you?

Grow Up...Live a Good Life...Don't worry so much over the little things.

Wow, this comment shows truely how ignorant you are:

a.) Programmers DON'T GET PAID! There is the difference between a comercially developed application, and a freeware program.
b.) Don't like that programs have bugs? MAKE YOUR OWN. I'd like to see you try to even code 1/4 as good of a program as Sam and Ahmed have done. They should be commended for their coding, not ridiculed
c.) You can't make any excused for the lame ass newbie emails like "What is ION?". That should not be the job of a programmer.

-Will Dempster
-Dimension-TI

amen

If you think that you are so cool because you have win98....phuck you. Does any windblows program or OS ever work (or work at all) the 1st time???? HELLO!! try learning linux and become an expert at it. Then maybe you will have appreciation for what the programmers and the like go through..goddamn newbie. when you learn the real OS (linux), welcome to the real world.

yeah, but, microshaft runs the business, world, more or less

1. Windows 98 never works perfectly when you boot it.
2. Starcraft crashes frequently
3. You have a right to complain when you buy a program, not when you get it for free. As the Linux philosophy states "Do It yourself". Isn't that the purpose of open-source. If a program doesn't work, either fix it or don't use it. Did anyone say "YOU HAVE TO PLAY THIS GAME OR ILL STEAL YOUR CALC". No, it's your decision. It's not the programmers responsibilty to finish games and fix them. If they give you even a demo you should be glad. At least you got something!
4. What programs have you made?
5. I have a good life
6. The 83+ community is not a little thing. I know Bill Nagel and things like this cause programmers to go off the edge like he did.

Actually, you're right. Windows 98 doesn't boot up nicely. Tha's why I love me linux.
95 doesn't do too well either. I can't say for StarCraft, but I will maintain that most such games are a bulky load on system resources and unless you plan to upgrade your PC with muchos $$$ every 6 mos. or more often, they will crash a lot.
The people at MS get PAID to make an OS. This is why we all hate Bill. His company no longer really cares about making software that really does anything we need, just about manipulating the situation so that we need his software--e.g. make the software, then make us need it. And it really is crap. Do you know how long it takes to load GD wordpad on a 133 Mhz 486 just to edit a text file? I can do so much better with ae on Linux. I type ae <file> and right then the editor screen is up, ready to use. I don't have $$$$$ to buy a 500 Mhz computer just to edit text and browse mostly text web sites in a timely manner. I have to bust my ass in a restaurant to get what little I have, and I'm sure Sam and Ahmed have jobs separate from their programming lives as well. The assumption that all we programmers are just "nerds" who don't have anything better to do than devote our entire lives to calculators is utterly false--and disappointingly prevalent.
As for Bill Nagel, what happened to him? I've been absent from the scene for a while. I know he made a lot of the original games back when NOBODY else was making realtime ASM games for ti-83. That put him up there on a pedastel for me.
As for HP calcs, the main reason I don't have one is games. I got the 83 because 1) I already knew how to program it and 2) there were lots of games(/other programs, i.e. sierpinsky's triangle). The fact that math teachers at our school only know the 83 and tell us to get them was largely irrelevant, because if all I wanted my calc for was math it would've had to be an HP.
Also, I am looking for ASM programmers to help me with the tinix project (83) It's gonna be straight ASM, because I haven't gotten around to researching what all that ION/ASHELL etc. crud is, let alone how to do it. That, and the idea is to take control of and manage everything the calc does. It's a multipart project. (maybe I better disassociate my email address with this project to avoid flames from people who can't work it. :) I can see that coming.)
Try not to be too hard on newbies in general, since a lot of them mean well (not the flamers, mind you). When I first installed linux, I asked a lot of newbie sounding questions on the mailing lists, but I really understood things for the most part. It was just that the documentation was so sparse and I didn't know what the specific filenames were that I needed to edit to configure things like internet. I really came off as being clueless though. I know this wasn't quite on the level of personal mail to a programmer asking how to get a program from a computer to a calculator; I mean, that is a new low, even for the term "newbie". That's part of the problem with taking an underground culture to a mainstream audience. Like Apple, and now Linux is coming to have more lamers associated with it because people are getting into it who are of the mentality that if something doesn't work it's some dumfrick programmer's fault rather than of trying to fix it. I have had to show more than one 83+ user how to use
mem menu, and actually had to do it for one of them.
Seriously, though, people now expect their ti's to be like Gameboys, just turn it on and play away. They don't expect to have to have any knowledge at all about how it works. The status quo at our school 4 years ago was to attach a sort of "mystic" status to people who played games on their calculators--people would talk like "I know this one kid, so-and-so's brother, he plays games on his calculator" (back then I was the only person I personally knew who had calculator games. I wrote all my own in BASIC because I had no graph link. I was in 8th grade and all the other people who had them were juniors and seniors, to my knowledge)

Youre right Ti-calc gaming has gone mainstream now. In middle school calc-games were only a 'myth' but in HS they are something to do to pass the time in math(or any other) class. Sure most poeple dont know how to work their calcs at first (and dont bother to read the manual), so I answer 'newbie' questions. It would be tedious except that i have "apprientces" (poeple i teach how to send games and play them or use the calc in general). That makes my job a whole lot easier and teaches others how to use thier calcs as well as play them.

i see where you are coming from, but really, the guys at microsoft get paid huge sums of money to do this stuff, and should thier product fail, companies loose money, people's lives can be messed up, and $2000 hardware can be damaged.

if sam or ahmed mess up, someone has to get through english class with out entertainment :)

its really unfair to compare the two. and plus its freelance, really.. no ones perfect.. maybe ahmed doesnt have time to beta test.. be glad he released the thing.

RESIDENT EVIL 68K... SOON...

True, It may have been unfair to compare the two. I see why. Thanks for your intelligent comment.
On another point, I compared them for simple reason:Do you know how many stupid questions Microsoft gets asked per day from its billion or so users?
My Points:
-Programmers don't have to program
-If they choose to do so, then programmers will get newbie questions
-They shouldn't expect everyone to know everything they do. Example( How do you make a processor? Any takers?
-If they hate all the questions, update the FAQ, put all the "newbie" questions into one pile and mass e-mail them all with the link to the updates FAQ. Simple.
-Make a help forum so people can help people.

Others points:
-I get asked many dumb questions in my school
-I answer them all
-Because I am the only one with the Graph link to get games.
-The people who come to me are only interested in the games, not anything else. They don't care for the programmer.
-Some people that I hook up with games on the 86 still don't know how to use Rascall after an entire year.
-People only want what they want and they know you can help the get what they want. They do not want to acknowledge anything as to the creator. Games are fun. They like games. Yet, I've come to realize these people have major talents in other areas besides computers. I'm sure you'll have plenty of dumb questions about qhatever they are "experts" at.

-The End-
Flame Me, show me your true colors.

As a matter of fact, programmers are already doing virtually all of what you ask. They do answer a lot of E-Mail, and they have already provided numerous help avenues, including ones here at ticalc.org (I recognize they aren't done by the programmers themselves, but I mean that the programming community, which includes other people that do these important jobs provides it). It's interesting that you state the programmers don't have to program. This means that you should be glad you at least get something instead of nothing. However, you don't ask for more but demand it. This would only be true if the programs themselves were actually of negative value. This is absurd, since everyone would delete them if they were.

Programmers don't usually hate newbie questions. They may choose to ignore them, but that's usually the worst it gets. It's only lame attacks such as what you provide that programmers actually mind. Even then, they usually ignore it.

You also state the fact that most people don't care about the programmers. You don't really say why you point this out, though it seems as if you're trying to suggest that since it's the opinion of the uneducated masses, it must be right. Most people probably don't care about fiber optic cables anyway, despite the fact that they're necessary for much of the telephone and InterNet communications they use. Does that mean we should ignore the cables? No. The fact that you're suggesting that humans deserve less respect than inanimate objects, for the simple "crime" of programming shows how absurd your reasoning is.

Your pointing out that the people who know nothing about calculators but know about other things is irrelevant to your argument, though it actually proves you wrong. You seem to be using that as "proof" that the newbies are as good as the rest of us. This is, however, something that most people already know. However, this brings us to an interesting point: suppose that one of the people you speak of is good at something else, let's say integral calculus. Now, if people who don't know much calculus asked the person questions, would you despise the person for not explaining everything in detail when the person asking didn't even bother to read a calculus book? Not really. On the other hand, if the person who did know happened to make a small mistake in otherwise flawless computations, would the people who know little have the right to attack that person for it? Obviously not. I certainly wouldn't attack someone who knew more than me about something simply because they were imperfect in it. Neither should you, but you somehow don't want to realize this.

"On another point, I compared them for simple reason:Do you know how many stupid questions Microsoft gets asked per day from its billion or so users?"

The programmers at M$ don't have to answer the questions; they hire tech support (big DUH).

"If they hate all the questions, update the FAQ, put all the "newbie" questions into one pile and mass e-mail them all with the link to the updates FAQ. Simple. "

Hmm, I wonder how many newbies read the FAQ?

"People only want what they want and they know you can help the get what they want. They do not want to acknowledge anything as to the creator. Games are fun. They like games. Yet, I've come to realize these people have major talents in other areas besides computers. I'm sure you'll have plenty of dumb questions about qhatever they are "experts" at. "

And we don't flame them because we dislike their art, or music, or whatever.

>-Programmers don't have to program
But the professional ones _get_paid_. The ones who don't get paid have no responsibility, apart from their own sense of morals, to create good games.

>-If they choose to do so, then programmers will get >newbie questions
But they don't have to answer them

>-If they hate all the questions, update the FAQ, put >all the "newbie" questions into one pile and mass e->mail them all with the link to the updates FAQ. >Simple.
If they hate all the newbie questions, they have the right not to address them at all.

>-Make a help forum so people can help people.
Once again, this is up to the programmer.

You do make some good suggestions, and in an ideal world that is how things would work. However, these are all things that the schoolwork-laden salary-less programmer will do at his/her own discretion. None of them should be forced upon the programmer, or even pestered about.

>Others points:
>-I get asked many dumb questions in my school
As do I

>-I answer them all
But you don't have too, see? It's nice of you that you do, and I try to do the same, and most people probably would, but it's a lot easier to answer a question when the person is standing right in front of you. Also, it's not like lines of newbies come knocking at your door every night with questions.


>-The people who come to me are only interested in the >games, not anything else. They don't care for the >programmer.
And from some of your comments, it appears that neither do you.

>-Some people that I hook up with games on the 86 >still don't know how to use Rascall after an entire >year.
So they're stupid. Oh well. You can tell them to deal with it if they still don't get it and are still bothering you.

>-People only want what they want and they know you
>can help the get what they want. They do not want to
>acknowledge anything as to the creator. Games are
>fun. They like games. Yet, I've come to realize these
>people have major talents in other areas besides
>computers. I'm sure you'll have plenty of dumb
>questions about qhatever they are "experts" at.

True, and they too have the right to ignore your questions. This may sound callous or rude, but when it comes down to it, they have no duty to answer questions. Teachers do. Customer service reps do. PAID PEOPLE do. The rest don't. I'd like to reiterate that this doesn't mean nobody should answer questions. I encourage people to answer questions; it's how people learn. My point is that if someone doens't answer another person's stupid question, I support that as their right.

chrisman
-akaChrisRemo

Well as for Microsoft getting asked millions of stupid questions a day... the key is they get paid.

I.E. If I walked up to you and said I'd give you $100 if you'd let me call you an idiot and punch you in the stomach... you'd probably let me (I'm not that big of a guy either, so my punching you wouldn't do anything permanent:P)

If I walked up to you, called you an idiot, punched you in a stomach and walked away... you wouldn't like that and you'd come after me:P

That's the difference between Microsoft getting flamed and asked stupid questions and Sam and Ahmed.

I hope you see my point.

As for YOUR points:
"Programmers don't have to program"

Be quiet! before they find out and stop!!!

"If they choose to do so, then programmers will get newbie questions"

That's why they stopped programming

"They shouldn't expect everybody to know everything they do."

That's why they include a READ ME file with all of their programs... it's kind of self-explanatory... you just read it:P

"If they hate all the questions, update the FAQ, put all the "newbie" questions into one pile and mass e-mail them all with the link to the updates FAQ. Simple."

It's illegal to spam people, and odds are if a person doesn't know how to read the readme file, they won't know how to join this mailing list:P

"Make a help forum so people can help people."

There already is like... what 5? On IRC, message boards, etc.

Thank you very much:P

-Trailblazer

This was quite a clever post. Especially the:

>>"Programmers don't have to program"
>Be quiet! before they find out and stop!!!

I laughed out loud...

chrisman
akaChrisRemo

You forgot one thing, the flames...
- Matt

Okay, that was a sad rebuttal. This is the most invalid argument I've seen yet. Guess what, jerkass? You _paid_ for StarCraft. You _paid_ for Windows 98. In theory, at least. One would _hope_ you (or at least someone) paid for them. There is a difference here. Why do you think charities accept goods in most any condition (although nice ones are preferred)? Because people donate. It's friggin free. Same with calc games. You will accept the programs in any condition, and you'll damn well appreciate it because these programmers have better things to do then write stuff for whiney bastards. Most, even all perhaps, of these programmers are in school like us. They have real stuff to do. Stuff that matters. These calc programs don't really matter all that much. TI programmers have no responsibility to create programs so you can sit your ass down in math class and play games. Sure, it's nice to do, I do it myself, but I realize that it's a privelege, not a right. I hope you realize that this post of yours most likely worsened to situation, not helped it in any way, nor did it 'convince' any programmers to see your point of view. If anything, it did exactly the opposite. If, all of a sudden, all programs stopped being produced for TI calculators, you couldn't do a DAMN THING ABOUT IT. You could complain until hell froze over, but that wouldn't do a damn thing. You'd have to make the games yourself. These programmers are doing you a favor. Okay?! People like you just piss me off. Seriously. I mean, come on, you have a machine, regardless of model, that is incredible. It's a small device that can perform countless operations you could never hope to do without it. I know we've all heard that tons of times before from parents, etc., but it's true dammit, when you think about it.
Okay, I got a bit off topic here, at least off the specific topic you were addressing, but it's all related. Oh, and about football coaches: they get paid, moron. How many of those guys would coach football for free? Not many, I can assure you that.

-chrisman
akaChrisRemo

>People like you just piss me off

So now you are catagorizing me? Why not just call me a nigger? You could at least flame my intelligence with some digity.

Besides, if you are going to flame me use something like this to be creative:

Blue Flame Form Results for Chris Remo:
[X] Clueless Newbie
[X] Disgrace
[X] AOLer
[ ] "Me too"er
[ ] CAPSLOCK FREAK
[ ] Blatant Spammer
[X] Nerd
[ ] Jerk
[X] Complete and total idiot
[ ] Freak
[X] Smartass
[ ] Dumbass
[ ] Raging Egomaniac
[ ] Web TVer
[X] Failure
[X] Moron
[X] Geek
[X] Loser
[ ] Flamer
[ ] Mac user
[ ] Porno freak
[X] Wannabe
[ ] FSDF fan (pitiful)
[ ] Other:

You Are Being Flamed Because:
[ ] You posted a porno link
[X] You deserve it
[X] You continued a long, stupid thread
[ ] You started an off-topic thread
[ ] You posted a "YOU ALL SUCK" message
[X] You posted a blatantly obvious troll
[X] You don't want to learn to fish, just want a fish
[X] You pretended to be a guru and, obviously, you aren't
[X] You thought you knew what you were talking about, but
obviously you don't
[X] You posted pretending to be someone important
[X] You tell someone they are wrong and don't prove it
[X] You claim to be great
[X] You claim to be the ruler of General Talk
[X] You think someone cares
[X] You flamed a poor guy in distress trying to find some help
[ ] You said "me too" to something
[ ] You didn't authenticate
[X] You suck
[ ] You spam
[X] You are wasting bandwidth without any useful purpose
[X] You are wasting valuable oxygen
[ ] YOU POSTED ALL YOUR ARTICLE IN CAPITALS
[ ] You flamed for no reason
[ ] You insulted Americans
[X] You are the reason people insult Americans
[ ] You love Apple
[ ] You love FSDF
[ ] You are FSDF
[ ] You flamed somebody's spelling and made a typo yourself
[ ] You used the BLUE Flame without my permission
[ ] You used the BLUE Flame against me (Evil)

To Repent, You Must:
[X] Format your hard drive
[X] Run laps across a busy highway
[X] Eat 6 AA batteries
[X] Go bunjee jumping in a nuclear cooling tower
[X] Shut up
[X] Bust up your modem with your forehead and eat it
[X] Swim with cement shoes
[X] Give up your AOL account
[X] Dive into an empty swimming pool
[X] Dive into a swimming pool filled with jellyfish
[X] Bend over backward and kiss your own arse
[X] Apologize to everyone for your ignorance
[ ] Flame FSDF twice
[X] Actually post something relevant
[ ] Send all your military to the country of my choosing
[X] Sodomize yourself with a bowling ball


In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
[X] Get a life
[X] We all hate you
[X] Learn to post or leave
[X] Never post again
[X] You suck
[X] Die
[X] Stop trying to be cool
[ ] Try authenticating
[X] I really enjoyed posting this
[X] Let history prove greatness
[ ] Go back to general talk

You're attempts to mock the people who try to respond with reason to your posts don't really show anything meaningful. Even you should recognize the difference between pure insults and a detailed refutation of your arguments (which is what the person you replied to had provided). Beside the point, however, almost everything you checked off is true for you, except "AOLer" (which I don't really know whether it applies).

Seriously though, you can't really attack other for flaming when you're the one who's doing the flames. We prove you wrong (I've done so myself, quite thoroughly, in a post farther down on this board) while you don't say anything meaningful but simply attack the programmers. The only "reason" you seem to be able to give is that programmers deserve vicious attacks, and the ones now are stupid for not realizing that they deserve such treatmen. You never (satisfactorily) explain why though.

On a side note, just imagine what things would be like if everyone did take your advice. Of course, anyone stupid enough to believe any of what you say would probably also be too stupid to program anything anywhere near the current calculator games. However, if by some amazing circumstance the calculator programmers did accept your reasoning without suffering such serious brain damage that they couldn't program anymore, think of what programs we would have. None. You wouldn't have anything to whine about, since there would be no programmers or programs. If the programmers truly thought they deserved the level of hate you think they do simply for releasing software, nothing would ever be released.

Dood, you suck bad. Being a AOL'er is completely irrelavent. Yes, some people that use AOL are lame, but I've sure seen a HELLUVA lot of people on IRC that aren't AOL'ers and that are as lame as they come. Maybe I've seen you once or twice... :P




Danny
http://zapo.calc.org

Lame, what do you mean lame. I have aol, along with other services, because AOL has like 50 times more features then most other services.

You probly make fun of AOL or people that use AOL because
note--X means thats it
(X)You're too poor to subscribe to it
( )You use erols
(X)you just feel like making things harder
(X)You want to look more professional.
(X)You suck
( )You own a PC
(X)You don't like people better than you
(X)You have no life
( )You don't know anyone with AOL

The only way to say sorry would be to
(X)Jump off a building
( )Say sorry
(X)Run into a parked car
(X)Jump through a window
(X)Tell a boxer to punch you in the nose as hard as he can
(X)Stick a knife in a toster
(X)Stick a paperclip in an electrical outlet
( )Start AOL
(X)Goto Hell
(X)Embaress your self in front of others

I would like to say

*You suck
*I hate you
*Shutup
*Send all flames to Bill_gates@microsoftsupport.com
*Go f*** a cow
*I would like to thanks anyone (I know who) that I copyed off of.
*Send all thankyou's to my link above
*Have a nice day no aol haters

Why would someone want to make fun of AOL to make himself look more professional? :P

Aol is supposedly easy to use. Some people concider people that use aol babies. NOT ME OF COURCE SINCE I USE IT MY SELF AT TIMES.

Shut up, pozer

Listen up... If you're gonna include "Mac User" on your flame list, then you're stupid. Owning a mac is not a reason to be flamed. My iMac does what I want it to do, and that's all I need it for. It browses the internet, emulates decently, and provides me with the means to avoid the evil Wintel Empire. Well... make that Windows empire, cause Intel isn't the problem, M$ is the problem. Anyway... on the other hand, give Sam and Ahmed a break... everyone makes mistakes once in a while. It's not like the world will end if there is not an 83+ port of ztetris... I have an 83, 86, 89, and 92 (not to mention the translucent multicolor slide cases), so it dosen't really matter to me if something gets ported to the 83+. However, I keep up with all the calcs regardless of whether I own them or not, and I think the 83+ is a good calculator and it deserves some attention from the programming community. By the way, don't flame me for this, but give the poor little TI-73 a chance. It has Flash ROM doesn't it? Well, someone look for a way to hack into it and enable ASM!! If not, if you have a 73 and program, get the SDK and make some flash based games for the thing... Oh... one more thing... Why didn't TI give the 85 a new case? It looks kinda outta place with the other 8x calcs.

-whytookay

It's not Sam and Ahmed's fault... we all make mistakes.

Ouch, man, ouch... That hurt. I'm feeling it inside.
How is using a form flame creative? Isn't that sort of mutually exclusive?
Aside from the fact that some of the smartest people I know are AOLers and it shouldn't belong on your list, I am not one. I don't exactly take offense at being called one, but I'm not. Even on a flame, your insults should at least make a hint of sense. In a form flame, you aren't supposed to just go randomly selecting choices. They should at least attempt to pertain to the poster at whom they are directed, or the message itself. In addition, my message was not a troll. If anyone's was, it was yours. For fuck's sake, you just counter-flamed me with a worse flame then you started with. And how are you a "poor guy in distress trying to find some help"?

I could go on and on, but I might be flamed again because I "thought I knew what I was talking about, but obviously I don't." Well, you did it. I'm convinced: I'm wrong. Congratulations.

-chrisman
akaChrisRemo

On a side note...Some of the dumbest people I know are on AOL...In fact, I haven't met a person yet on AOL that was the least bit intelligent about the internet or computers. They're like "whats an OS?". "Do you have the internet?", "No, but I've got AOL" =P No offense to micros who saw his parents error and rebuked them from their evil ways =)

Okay, that's not my point. Just because the people you know on AOL are stupid doesn't mean they all are. Most of the people on AOL are NOT stupid, you just meet the ones who are. The ones who are not stupid do not stand out because they don't ask questions. It's like politicians. In all reality, most politicians are not swindlers or liars or whatever. However, the "good" ones aren't heard about from the press. Only the bad ones are. Same with AOLers. Nobody talks about the smart AOLers, only the stupid ones. This is a whole other conversation, though...

chrisman
-akaChrisRemo

Why did you bother to say all that?

-Vejita

I don't know, it only took a minute or two to type...

chrisman
akaChrisRemo

We haev a tendency to classify. We all hate minorities and the way they impress their narrow minded view on everyone else, so we clasif ythe ones that stand out the most, that being the idiots. We notice them, stand back, alugh and point, and comment to veryone we know on how foolish they are.

...and I thought I had too much time on my hands...

Right... that's it exactly. I'm *catagorizing* you into the "group of people who piss me off." That's not catagorizing you. Also, calling you a n***** (that is honestly to crappy of a word to type for me) would not be catagorizing you. It would be a baseless insult. That is not what my post was. And in response to your question, I didn't call you that because to the best of my knowledge, you aren't one. However, I know for a fact that you piss me off. It's not an opinion, it's just true: you do.

chrisman
-akaChrisRemo

>I expect my Windows 98 to work perfectly everytime I boot it

Because you paid $100 for it.

>I expect my Starcraft game to be able to play starcraft. When it doesn't, I complain. Why?

Because you paid $50 dollars for it.

When Ti Programmers start charging 10 Bucks a game, then you have a valid reason to complain about a program's reliability.

Maybe that's what should happen. After all, it seems like it's the general attitude going on in here. Don't get me wrong, I've Always thought paying any amount of money for any Ti-calculator Application was a stupid Idea, but with comments like this always popping up, It makes you wonder. At least we would have some inititave to make games for people like this.

Here's the deal. Bugs happen, Bugs get fixed, and no one is paying for these programs. Dont get me wrong here either. I expect a game to work when I download it, but I'm not going to go insane and insult the programmer's intelligence if it dosen't. And until such time when paying for these games becomes a fact of life, I dont think anyone has a right to flame or insult anybody programming these calcs. If it dosen't work, delete it, or tell the programmer (Respectfully) that the program is causing an error, what the error is, and where it's occuring. It's not Rocket Science here, just common curtesy and sense.

"When Ti Programmers start charging 10 Bucks a game, then you have a valid reason to complain about a program's reliability. "

I see everyone missed my point. My point was, if you are going to say you are a programmer, then you better take all the crap that comes with it.
-If people started charging for programs then it will be the fall of ticalc.org.
-Since they are free that good.
-That doesn't give the programmer to treat the "ignorant people" as they are totally idiotic. Eveyone has their faults.
-If you don't don't like all the newbie questions then why don;t you create a new FAQ for the most frequesntly asked newbie questions and send them there instead of ignoring them and treating them like dirt.

Actually, that's not true at all. Everyone here understands your so-called point; most of them just think it's wrong. That's because they're more intelligent than you.

The flaws in your so-called argument are obvious. Unless you consider programming calculator games to be a bad thing (in which case you have no business accessing this site or any others like it) suggesting that the programmers deserve "crap" for their hard work is absurd. If you think programmers don't have the right to ignore E-Mail they don't like, you must be insane. Your comparison with Windows98 just highlight the general stupidity of your arguments. Try sending E-Mail to "billgates@microsoft.com" whining about a problem with Windows and see if it gets fixed for you in a timely manner. I doubt it.

Also, your anti-programmer rantings also show a fundamental failure to understand what the programmers are doing. Your pathetic whinings seem to suggest that you believe the programmers aren't taking the "crap" that they deserve in a proper way. However, this is not at all true. In general, calculator programmers do much more for the users than they are obligated to. As a calculator program myself, I respond to virtually all the E-Mail I get. If it's a stupid question, I may simply tell them to look at it in the ticalc.org help, but that's really all that they need. From this Ztetris 83+ thing (which I am loosely related to since I provided some assistance in the conversion from the 85 to the 82) I did get one message (only one, a lot less than Ahmed and Sam got) accusing me of programming a virus. If I were indeed someone not able to handle what I received, I would have retaliated against this with E-Mail bombs or other stupid pranks. However, it's worth noting that the calculator programmers aren't the ones who do such nonsense.

Furthermore, I think there is something *you* should be aware of:

If you decide to play games on your calculator, *you* are the one who should be prepared to take the crap that comes with it. If you aren't, *you* should avoid the games. In particular, this "crap" constitutes the occassional possibility, that among a large amount of very complex code, the programmer (who despite being many times smarter than you are still not quite perfect) may have made some small mistake that might inconvenience you, including crashing your calculator. If you don't *know* that this is a possibility (especially with newly released software, or software identified as "Alpha", "Beta", "Pre-release" or whatever) then you are definitely quite the idiot.

Furthermore, your suggestion that charging for programs would destroy ticalc.org is also wrong, though it makes more sense than the other stuff you're saying. Even without any archives, ticalc.org (and the other sites also) are useful because of their other content, such as the help files, as well as the mailing lists and message boards which are also quite enlightening when one ignores threads started by people like you. The true downfall of ticalc.org would only come when the majority of users act like *you*. Everyone expects newbies; some will help them and others will just ignore them. If (in combination with whatever individual help they may get) they are willing to read help files that others have generously made available, they will learn what they need to know. The only problem in our community are the few total lamers like you who try to disrupt it. Only when the majority of users act like you will the community truly go away. However, even that won't really *destroy* the community; it would simply force the programmers to work only amongst themselves and not waste time giving anything to the public.

First of all, I don't really know who you think is treating newbies like dirt, but my best guess (from the stupidity of your other posts) is that you have some sort of opinion that programmers in general despise the newbies. Your uninformed demand that we make help files is also silly since that's already been done. I also want to point out that while some programmers may ignore newbies, there are others in the community who will help. That's why, for example, there are lots of help files on ticalc.org, and they even have an e-mail address "help@ticalc.org" you can send questions to. However, they provide help with calculator problems, so don't bother writing themself for the mental help that you obviously need. Even though mailing a programmer directly isn't the best way to get help for a beginner, I (a calc programmer myself) answer even the newbie questions; if it's a really simple question I'll probably just refer them to the help files on ticalc.org or something, but if I think they need something from me specifically I'll answer them. I have never told a newbie that they're an idiot; even the person who blamed me for writing a virus got an explanation of the truth, rather than an attack, from me. The only people I ever flame are total lamers like you.

This brings us to another point that reveals your stupidity. While demanding that programmers provide more help, you also demand them to write perfect programs. Your comparisons to commercial software are absurd in many ways, but this is just one of them. You don't demand the programmer of a commerical software company to also provide support (if you get any at all, it's from a separate support staff) yet you think we should. This is one of the many ways (the others have been explained quite thoroughly in other posts) that you (in your silly claims that we should do as well as commercial software in reliability and support) actually demand us to do far better than the commercial software companies.

The fact is that, even though we don't owe it to anyone, we actually do provide better support than commercial software companies. Even when using free software (e.g. GNU/Linux) for computers you have to pay for user support. However, the calculator community gives you a lot of high-quality support for free. In addition, if you report bugs on proprietary software, they may take many months to fix it if they ever do. If anyone, you should be attacking the big software companies like MicroSoft.

Your claim that programmers shouldn't treat newbies like idiots is blatantly absurd in many ways. The first problem with it is that the programmers don't. It also begs the question of why you think you have the right to treat the programmers (who are by anyone's standards other than your own much more intelligent than you) as idiots simply because they're not perfect. After all, everyone has faults (you said it yourself) and the programmers should be no exception. If anything, the programmers should be expected to make more mistakes than they do considering the complexity of their work.

As a final note, I'll address more specifically you're misinterpretation of the event regarding the 83+ controversy. You blame people like Sam for not working on the 83+.
This is very interesting, because you say that a programmer deserves "crap" as punishment for his or her hard work. By your own fallacious reasoning, refusing to do work is the only way a programmer can avoid being attacked. In other words, if someone does port the games, they'll suffer the "crap" they should be "prepared for" due to their work. However, if they don't, they'll still be attacked by lamers like you for refusing to do new work! Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that (according to you) the second a person first releases a program they're doomed to a life of being harassed since if they do work, they're attacked for imperfections and if they don't, they attacked for not doing it. Furthermore, it's interesting to note that you think Sam deserves to be attacked for a small mistake that Ahmed made, which doesn't even hold up to your own so-called reasoning since he didn't even make a small mistake in this case.

Furthermore, all the programmers mentioned here have responded very reasonably to the vicious attacks they suffered. The E-mail-bombing attacks, by the way, are highly illegal in the United States and probably other countries as well. Even in the face of these vicious and sometimes criminal attacks, they haven't done anything unreasonable. They simply chose not to release programs for some time, and Sam didn't allow porting of some programs to the TI-83+. However, since programming is an act deserving punishment (according to you) it's fully understandable that they wouldn't want to program anything at all. Sending mail-bombs back, or other vicious attacks, would be a sign of a problem on the part of the programmers. However, they instead simply made decisions on what programs to write, which they should be able to do.

anyone want to sumarize this?


I wonder if anyone read past the first paragraph?



-Leenooks ars k3wl

I didn't. I hate long comments.

As the original author, I will try to provide a summary for everyone here. This summary is still rather long, but shorter to the original. It's also explained point by point so it might be easier to read.

==== Begin summary

The main theme of the post is the fact that virtually everything stated by "Dan_The_Tuba_Man" (or whatever it is) on this board is completely false.

The specific points made are basically these:

1) While he claims that people don't "understand" him just because they disgaree with him. But the truth (which you can see by reading the other posts) is that they do understand, and that's why the disagree.

2) Your statement that programs deserve punishment for there hard work only makes sense if you think that programming games is a bad thing, in which case you shouldn't use calculator games at all. (More on this after the summary)

3) Programmers should have the right to ignore E-Mail they don't want to answer.

4) Your demands that we support your software (and comparing this with support you get from commercial vendors) is unreasonable; if you whined to "billgates@microsoft.com" about Windows crashing, you wouldn't get the help you wanted.

5) You say that the programmers don't deal appropriately with the attacks they suffer, but they actually do.

6) I'm a programmer myself, and (directly opposite your absurd generalizations) I do answer requests for help from newbies. It's only the vicious flames that I might refuse to give useful replies to.

7) The ones who can't handle stuff are the people who conduct lame attacks like mailbombing, not the programmers, who at the very worst might choose to refuse to work for you for free.

8) It's you who don't know how to take what you should expect. Whenever you get a new calc game, you should know that the slight possibility exists of a small error (including one that crashes the calc) in an otherwise perfect program.

9) Charging for programs wouldn't end ticalc.org, since it has many other services that it provides, such as help, mailing lists, etc. The only thing likely to make them shut down is if the majority of users were lamers like you. However, even in that case some programming would still exist, but it wouldn't be spread publicly. (more on this after the summary)

10) Your claims that we treat newbies like dirt are false. The fact is the TI community provides a lot of help to beginners, both in the form of answering E-mail questions and in providing numerous help files. Only the lamers who flame us (like you) do we actually despise.

11) You're actually demanding we do better than commercial software providers. Several instances of this have already been pointed out by others (e.g. expecting more reliability), but here's another one: For PC software, the support you get (which you *pay* for, even with free software like GNU/Linux you'll to pay someone for support) comes from support staff not the programmers.

12) The truth is that calc programmers give better support than anyone else. If you report bugs in commercial software, it won't be fixed for a long time, maybe never.

13) Repitition of point 10

14) Furthermore, you don't seem to apply the same standards to lamers such as yourself. If everyone has their faults, that must include the programmers too, in which case you should tolerate it as you demand us to tolerate your lameness.

15) Your defense of attacks both on programming as well as attacks on refusing to program leaves no choice for the programmer. Either they must do what's demanded, and receive the "crap" that comes with that, or they can refuse to, and be attacked for not doing so. Therefore, as soon as someone releases one program, he or she is doomed for life.

16) You seem to ignore the fact that Ahmed wasn't the only flamed for his small mistakes. Sam, who had nothing to do with the problem, also got a lot of flame mail.

17) The programmers aren't the ones reacting immaturely. The worst they do is ignore mail, or (in the case of vicious flames) sometimes flame the lamer back. It's the lamers who are conducted the highly vicious attacks and criminal activites such as sending E-Mail bombs.

==== End of summary

Now, the additional points:

18) It's interesting to note that the person who started this thread actualyl says "if you become a programmer and a good one at that ..." This suggests that only the good programmers deserve to flamed by lamers. That's very interesting, as it suggests that bad programmers don't deserve the flames and as a result all the programmers would be better off if they did lower quality work.

19) Also, we should note that it's not the release of the program that makes one vulnerable to receiving masses of flame mail. It's the release of the programmers E-Mail address that allows that to happen. If lamers flamed the programmers too much, they probably would be more likely to just not give out E-Mail addresses, or would filter out all E-Mail except that from a few respectable people. This would still allow programmers to help each other and report bugs in each others' programs, but would be bad for the newbies since they couldn't ask for help.

I suppose we're going to start using Cliff's Notes for comments.

:::Applause:::
(even though I didn't read the whole thing)

Couldn't have said it better myself.

As one of the few, I suppose, who read the entire post, I must congratulate you. That was a great response. :)

-chrisman
akaChrisRemo

That was one of the best posts I've seen in a long time on ticalc.org. Excellent!

(yes, I read the whole thing)

holeeee shit.

wow.

so im guesssing you're definitely passing History?

there, i went and read the whole thing.

Very well said, and you have an extensive vocabulary comprising many choice words.

Great job!!!

By far the best post I've read on this site in months.

Hmm.. were you hurt by a programmer in the past? Maybe a programming girlfriend that left ya because she liked linux and you like windows?

That must be it, 'cause you have a serious attitude (a bad one) toward programmers and what they should have to put up with.

>I see everyone missed my point. My point was, if you are going to say you are a programmer, then you better take all the crap that comes with it.

Oh yeah. getting hundreds of Hate mail a day is really common in the Ti community. I can understand a couple of stupid questions but not a ton of hate mail. Think about it, how would you feel if you came home and recieved 100 e-mails that basicially "your stupid" or "Die"? That really would help out your confidence.

>-If people started charging for programs then it will be the fall of ticalc.org.
>-Since they are free that good.

I cant disagree with that, I've always been against paying money for any Calc based game, But the reality is that people aren't going to put up with being ridiculed because their alpha version of their program has a couple of bugs in it. There either going to say "screw it, Im now releasing a new Version", or their going to say "give me $10 and it's yours"

>That doesn't give the programmer to treat the "ignorant people" as they are totally idiotic. Eveyone has their faults.

And that goes the same for the users. That dosen't give the user of a program the right to treat the Programmer like some sort of slave labor thinking that the programmers only destiny in life is to program ti-calculator games for everyone in this comunity. It's a two way door here. You treat us with respect and we treat it back.

>-If you don't don't like all the newbie questions then why don;t you create a new FAQ for the most frequesntly asked newbie questions and send them there instead of ignoring them and treating them like dirt.

Go to my website. Cilck on E-mail and see what happens. The problem isn't with a FAQ Structure, It's trying to get the user to READ. My favorite example of this was a pong program someone made. This program would Clear your RAM., So people would E-mail him constantly screaming about how their RAM got cleared and all he would say was that if you would have read the Readme, it says in bold that the program WOULD Clear your RAM.

Found a mistake in ths post that is misleading the one part should say "screw it, Im not releasing a new Version", instead of what it says above.

See what I Mean. Mistakes DO happen. Live with it and wait until their fixed.

Well...., if you really want to nitpick, you are missing several apostrophes, and the word, "the," is misspelled above.

-Ryan

Apparently you haven't understood a damn thing whats going on..if you want english 201..your at the wrong website buddy..
Theres a point to be made..and its obvious that your not there to recieve it. I'm trying to make this as nice as I can say it, give people a damn break. This is one of many reasons why people can't stand for stupidity like yours..yes there were grammer errors..no I'm sure he didn't care if he made any nor do I..in fact the point being(which is obvious you didn't catch it) is most people would like others to understand a couple things..
*Respect
*Patience
*Maturity
Everything I listed should be an equal balance between user and programmer..both should respect each other. The programmer should have the patience to understand the users questions while in turn the user has to understand that not all programmers have the time, availability to be online, etc..
maturity..well thats the most important one of them all..mature enough to communicate in a orderly manor..flaming, ranting, or posting obvious stupid comments..doesn't help the current situation nor does solve anything..just creates more problems. Constructive critism I accept..but grammer checks on a board..hell no..if you wanted someone to reply back pissed off..you did an excellent job.

good point

as far as maturity goes, thats the part where you seperate people into three classes:

those who are

those who aren't

those who aren't sure

these people are easy to classify. you have your "those who are". these people take time to answer questions, don't try to be smartasses and generally have a good attitude when it comes to proper behavior on the messageboards. your "those who aren't" are those people who find it funny to make blatent fun of other peoples mistakes. in one comment the author thought it neccesary to let people know that mistakes do happen. he even had an example og how he made a mistake. a very mature response. in reply to that, somebody said, "well if you want to get nitpicky about it, you also misspelled 'the'".
there..that is a classic example of your "those who aren't".
im not saying its wrong to be immature, sometimes you can't help it, but you do need to realize that it is immature and people generally don't care to see it.

your "those who aren't sure" are those people like 'the tuba man'. he has made some very mature and immature comments, some of which he probably doesnt realize he made. thats ok. at some point he will realize exactly how much people don't care about his immature comments and will knock it off based on his general lack of popularity.

once again...maturity is the key.
its a clear sign that tells the programmers exactly what mail they need to respond to.

jake

Oh, but, why read when you can just

SKIM and then SCREAM!!!

Peoples problem is as you stated it. People are going to be illeterate in the next generation, or the one after that.

Skim and scream if you don't agree.

(that is by far the stupidest phrase i've come up with in my LIFE. Wow.)

You are wrong on all accounts

If people start charging for calculator games, it wouldn't be the fall of ticalc.org, it would be the creation of ticalc.com

Since they are free they are good... so don't complain

If you saw somebody trying to shove a CD into the floppy disk drive of a computer, you'd laugh because they are completely idiotic...

There is already a faq for newbie questions, in fact there are many sites devoted to helping newbies AND message boards to help them+ IRC channels

well finally someone tells me that CDs don't go into the "floppy drive". Well if they don't (though I'm not entirely sure they don't because if you cut the edges off of the CD it fits nicely) just tell me then Mr. Smartypants where do they go? (I've been puzzled on this one ever since I got my computer)And another thing those "floppy disks" are pretty hard.

Well back to something on topic. Sam is a fine programmer and a crashed calc doesn't really mean anything especially with archiving because if you make a backup file and archive it you won't have to worry about a crash because you just take out the batteris ungroup the backup and your back in business.

I know what comes with the territory..apparently you don't. I accept that the public demands 100% accuracy..I also understand that they except it to be the best we can produce also..but in a mutual understanding they have to understand that we do not get paid for this, sponsored for, or rewarded in anyway. I(can't speak for everyone) do this for entertainment or what people call 'FUN'..yeah It sounds crazy..but after work I like to sit down and program..and I do put my 100% effort into a project. I like to think also that people will understand that I can only do at a pace that my lifestyle allows me too. What you state..is clearly for someone who gets PAID for doing this..and besides that..we as programmers could spend our time in doing other stuff..knowingly I should spend it in sleep :P
I like what I do..and I'm sure other programmers like what they do..making games is fun..or least should be..and people like you who think we should be DEMANDED..should go out in the real world and try this philosophy and see how far you get with it. I believe a good programmer is one who accepts what he does..but also maintains a postive aspect of what he is doing and likes what he is doing. People who do nothing but complain ruin this for them and this inturn deters them from wanting to do much or anything at all. How do you expect someone to accept flames and hate mail when they do this for fun is my question...

DID YOU PAY $40 FOR EACH OF TEH GAMES ON YOUR GODDAMN 83(+)??!!?!?!?

uh, he doesn't even have a 83+

you would know that if you checked his info


he has a 86 though..... so maybe you should ask him if he paid $40 for each of "teh" games on his "goddamn" 86

*chucke*, I supose you are one of those stupid 83+ users that everyone is talking about....... GO AWAY

uh, he doesn't have an 83+, either. If YOU would check his profile, then you would know that. Your lack of intelligence makes
me wonder when you are going to buy an 83+.

*chuckle*

he got one on loan from his school.....


oh.. and someone may want to tell him how to fix that capslock key problem...

screaming IN ALL CAPS is ok occaisionally.


ThIS iS wHaT pISsEs Me oFf

someone who never uses lower-case letters pisses me off

who are you?
do I know you?
why did you know what you know?

and its only an 83 - (+)

and for the post of yours a few above, you'll not that i put the + in parenthesis, and excuse me if he doesn't have an 83 either.

i don't really remember what else i planned to respond to, so i'll go now

wtf, this stupid library browser just died, and i cant go back

shoddy M$ crap.
why am i asking you this?
what is the meaning of life?

I ThInK YoU NeEd tO JuSt CaLm DoWn

This is perhaps the only truly funny ticalc.org message I've ever seen.

Hey, how much would you charge to help me be able to write flame-bait like that?

All I can say is... NICE JOB

ok..as i dont usually complain about peoples comments, i feel that yours should eb the exception...

i guess you dont realize that the reason you expect windows 98 and starcraft to work is because YOU PAID FOR THEM...i can understand being pissed off if i had PAID for ztetris and it didnt work...on that level then flames would be regarded as "the norm"

these guys are doing it for their enjoyment and the reason you get to share is because they let you.

they have the upper hand and there is NOTHING you can do about it, and as you have seen...flames just make it worse..for you

jake

this is the longest message thread i've ever seen

irrelevant i know, but i had to say it















see

What can I say... he is a pro at flame-bait.


I wonder if there are any kind of awards or something for being able to piss stupid people off?