Survey posted 2002-12-28 15:49 by Magnus.

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Does any one know in stamp basic if there is and what the comand is for getting a servo's position?

Never programmed asm, I have programmed C with TIGCC--a great program!

i made a uP of my own in circuitmaker... i invented my own assembler and mnemonics... later i found out it was already invented (yeah)

second post?

That's cool. I'm ordering some 6502 chips from 6502.org.

Gonna make me a 8-bit computer fum scratch. Gonna download a TCP/IP OS for it. Gonna run it off'a AA batteries. Gonna use it as a webserver (maybe).

I learned both through tutorials.

I am new at asm programing but can someone please tell me how to compile the programs so i can put them on my calc? Thanks

Required DOS utilities:

-TASM
-DevPac8x
-DevPac83
-TASM80.TAB
-asm.bat
-TASMP

Prerequisites (only do this once)

1. Open the DOS command prompt on your computer.
2. At the DOS command prompt, switch the directory to the directory that holds asm.bat
3. open the text editor and edit the last line of asm.bat (it should say "exit"). Switch this to "echo Fixed by JcN"
4. Save and Exit the text editor
5. Exit the DOS prompt

Compiling:

1. make sure that all of the DOS utilities described above are in the same folder and that your .z80 file (which should be 8 letters long and in all caps and written as a WordPad or NotePad file) is in with them.
2. Open the DOS command prompt
3. Change the directory to the folder that holds the files mentioned in step 1.
4. type in "asm " and then your program name
5. If all goes well, DevPac83 and DevPac8x will execute and make both a TI-83 and TI-83+ file.

Sending to the calculator:

1. Exit the DOS command prompt.
2. Goto My Computer and find the folder that holds your DOS utilities.
3. There should be a file that ends in .83p and one that ends in .8xp. .8xp files are TI-83+ programs, and .83p files are TI-83 programs. Select the one that corresponds to your calculator.
4. Right click on the file.
5. Select "Send to"
6. Make sure that your calc is plugged into your link cable and that the cable is in your computer.
7. Select "Connected TI Device"
8. The program should be sent to your calculator. Check the dialog box that pops up as a result to step 7 for more instructions.

If you have any more questions, e-mail me.

>>3. open the text editor and edit the last line of asm.bat (it should say "exit"). Switch this to "echo Fixed by JcN"

You've just discovered my secret pet peeve: People who love putting their signature somewhere it doesn't belong. Alleyways, bathroom walls, DOS batch files...

Sorry, lord_nightrose.

(to my above comment)
Change step 3 to this:

3. open the text editor and edit the last line of asm.bat (it should say "exit"). Switch this to "echo This is a fixed version of asm.bat"

can you please tell me where to get the files

I think you can get them here. If you can't find them, download the EZAsm compiler under Windows Assembly Utilities. All of these files are in it.

Ignore these instructions if you do not have a TI-83 or TI-83+. I can help you with your TI-89, but I do not know anything about TI-86's. For your TI-89, just install TIGCC (downloadable from this cite) and program in C instead of assembly.

Cool, 3rd post.

Learned ASM by myself, just by looking at other peoples code. Took about a year and a half to get real good.

Yeah I know, it's a hard language. It takes a long time.

Which are they referring to here, z80 ASM, or 68K ASM?

Both, probably, but more the z80 asm I think, becaues there don't seem to be as many 68k asm programmers (although there are some), most people learn C instead...

That's what I thought. I think z80 is so much easier.....

That's because there are less commands to learn in z80 asm as opposed to 68K asm. Also, since most people program for Ion, the Ion lib saves a lot of code and time.

I program for CrASH. lol It's a little different, but it's close to the same.

I learned Asm through AsmGuru but mostly through reading other peoples sources. People think that Asm is hard to learn, but it isnt if you try hard enough and have the motivation.

Why learn Asm when you can learn C, which is easier, has much more documentation, many more examples, and is supported by a wide variety of devices.

Why use C when it is much more bloated, slower and gives you less power over your program?

hmm, good point. But for me at least, C is easier and there's supported grayscale. In asm, u have to flash the pixels on and off really fast (i think). In C it's:

Gray On();

and that's it. But JoeP has a good point.

Grayscale in asm and in C is achieved the same way, it's just been dumbed down in C.

GrayOn(); (lol)

C really isn't all that slow, if you're good with it. And people have made (and are making) some very good programs with C (take Kill Bin Laden, for instance, hehe)

But, even so, for the TI-89/92+, it's much easier to learn C. The 68K asm is very complex and irritating to write code in. Then, you have C. Much easier.

>>GrayOn(); (lol)
'lol' undeclared (first use in this function)

more like:
{
GrayOn(); //(lol)
}

//*Calc does wierd stuff then crashes*

Yeah I know, the point of that was just say it was one word, ignoring the lol, yeah, it should have been commented if it was in the same line.

Have you ever tried compiling a program that doesn't "turn off" the grayscale? (with GrayOff();?) It's really funny :) ...for a while.

>>In asm, u have to flash the pixels on and off really
>>fast (i think). In C it's:
>>Gray On();
OK, you're mis-informed. First, the Grayscale implementation in TIGCC is written ENTIRELY in assembly. It's huge source. Pour over it to see how it works. Now, the thing is, since it's in an archive, you can use it is asm. It's easy:
bsr GrayOn
turns on grayscale (does the EXACT same thing as GrayOn(); No joke). The thing is, the TIGCClib can be linked to AMS programs as well as C programs. For z80, grayscale is something else :)

I think that the z80 asm grayscale is flashing pixels, though.

Yeah.

That's how I use grey scale. Also, you can have sprites with greyscale in z80 if the grey areas have a "checkerboard" appearance (the grey area really looks like alternating black and white pixels). If the sprite moves quickly, the "checkerboarded" area appears grey.

Example of checkerboard appearance:

.db %00011000
.db %00100100
.db %00100100 Lines five and six of this 8x8 sprite
.db %01111110 have a checkerboarded pattern to make
.db %11010101 a greyscale effect when the sprite
.db %10101011 moves quickly.
.db %01111110
.db %00000000

note: In case you are wondering, this sprite is a flying sauser. It is a sprite used one of my games that has not been published yet.

If BASIC were faster, you could do it with BASIC too.

Hey, why don't you show your author profile?

I don't know why my author profile does not show.

(to above comment)

I think I just fixed it. Even still, the orange button isn't showing...

Because development time is usually worth a few extra bytes or cycles. If C works for your application, why spend 2-10 times longer to develop it in assembly language? Look at all of the great programs from the TI-Chess Team, including TI-Chess. Those are great programs written in C.

Will you two stop arguing?

They're not really arguing... it's more like... debating.

I dunno, I've seen fights here before, and this is nothing like it :)

They're having a "heated discussion."

That seems to fit the description. :)

Hehe... that takes me back... a few weeks... ;-)

It's called "aggressive negotiations".

Where have I heard that before?

star wars episode two

Oh yeah, that's right.

Hey - this isn't an argument. It's an intelligent discussion :)

LOL :)

But, there is one thing I don't like about some of those popular TI games...

They use functions like ngetchx() that let Auto-Int-1 be enabled, which doesn't let you use the 2nd/dia/alpha/shift keys. It's really quite a pain. I now only use _rowread() so people can use the 2nd key.

I'm still yet to use '_rowread()'... I'm sure it's simple enough (I briefly read the mini-readme on it in the TIGCC help), but I've never made a program that used any combination of keys other than more than one arrow at once.

How do you use the _rowread() command? I'm confused.

imho, the time it takes to become good at assembly is well worth it. The programs you write in assembly will teach you far more than they would if you were to write them in C. While having C is nice for some things, I personally get more enjoyment out of programming something small and fast in assembly.

C is better for just about anything except very low-level programs, like kernels and TSRs. It's much easier to keep track of a larger program, the source is easier to read, it can be nearly as fast with a good compiler like the GCC (in tigcc), and most of all, it's much quicker and more efficient in development. Like someone else said, I'd say that having the program use a few extra clock cycles or bytes is well worth writing the program in 1 hour in C verses writing it in 4-6 hours in ASM.

also, 6+ letter keywords are easier to remember than 3- keywords. imho atleast.

Like, actual words versus abbreviations?

Keywords? Like variables? (I'm suddenly confused)

Functions? :-?

6+ keywords are C functions
3- keywords are ASM instruction mnemonics.

Oh those... I didn't know what he was referring to :)

You can change that you just eed a lot of'#define' at the begining of the program so it's easier to read

ex.
;Here's the "Hello World!" program*
;*It has been modified for easier interpretation by B.A.S.I.C.
;programmers who want to learn z80 assembly
;this will compile correctly
;anything after a semi-colon will be ignored by the compilier
;so keeping comments in a program is just fine
.nolist
#define end .end
#define END .end
#define equ .equ
#define EQU .equ
#define store ld
#define clearhome b_call(_ClrLCDFull)
#define disp b_call(_PutS)
#define move_cursor_to_next_line b_call(_NewLine)
#define outputcolumn PenCol
#define save_prgm_to_memory_at .org
#define return_to_calculator_mode ret
#define define_as .db
#Include "ti83plus.inc"
.list
save_prgm_to_memory_at 9D95h;this will always be 9D95h.The 'h' says:this is a Hexadecimal number
clearhome
store hl,0
store outputcolumn,hl
store hl,message
disp
move_cursor_to_next_line
return_to_calcuator_mode
message:
define_as "Hello World!",0
.end
.end

um, most TSR's are made in C. i dunno about kernels tho

Most kernels are also written in C. The Linux kernel, for example, is written almost entirely in C. The only parts that are written in assembly are hardware-specific and are very low level, or they have to be very fast, such as for graphics.

The more C, the more portable the code is. That way, you only have to rewrite the minimal ASM code that is processor-specific to port the program to a new processor.

However, the code has to have functions compatible with the target compiler. You could not compile TI-GCC sources with any other compiler unless the source was written in strict ANSI C or was at least function-compatible with the target compiler.

And even better, if the code was written in Java, it would be compatable with every processor in the world. Too bad no one has ever written a Java compiler for TI calculators :(

Actually, someone was going to write a java language thing for a calc (can't remember which), but if you look a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time ago in the news, you'll see it. I never heard what became of the project.

Thanx. I'll research the old news files and see if the project was completed. w00t!

It was called the WabaVM, and it was for the 89. I looked at it. It was neat, but not really worth using: the VM itself swallowed almost 150KB of memory just to exist in place. The programs didn't wind up very small, either. The only real good side was the OO-programming, which was lost in the user-unfriendliness.

I'm talking about ti-89 specific. Most ti-89 kernels I know of were written in assembly. The linux kernel was written in c because it runs on a much powerful platform than the 89. In the 89, the teeny bit of speed gained from assembly is worth it with things like kernels that are running all the time. I suppose a good combination would be a c/asm hybrid using inline asm for certain things, but C for other things.

Yes, speed is good, but I don't think that C is too much slower than ASM. The only difference that I notice is size, which isn't really a probably, when you have 500K of memory. (I filled mine once!)

I'm guessing you meant problem, not 'probably', and... only once? My memory is constantly full. I have a good 100-200 programs sitting on my calculator right now which I could (and probably will, someday) publish.

If you are good enough, it doesn't take that much longer.

That's my problem ;-) I'm SLOW with z80, but at least I can do it.

The best thing about C is that it lets lazy people like me, who are scared of ASM, program shtuff, tf it greatly increases the volume of shtuff there is to download. Hooray for TIGCC!

Yes, but it also increases the amount of junk there is to download. It's hard to tell whether you're downloading a quality C game, or a junk C game. That's why we need reviewers!











*wink, wink*

(to my above comment)

Yes, it's hard to tell the good from the bad programs. I made both types. ;-)

See title.

Yeah, programming in ASM does make you feel smarter than in C. Probably because the majority of people don't know ASM.



I have an interesting question: Which do people know? z80 or 68K?
I know z80 (pretty easy), but I thought 68K was too rough, so I learned C instead.

I know a bit of 68k ASM, because I own only a 68k calc. Mostly I program in raw hex, because I don't want to learn the mnemonics. (I only make programs less than 10 instructions, usually.)

I also have a 6502 I ripped out of a Franklin Ace 1000, an Apple ][ clone. I hooked it's address lines to a bunch of LEDs, and the data lines to a bunch of switches. This way I can use it without any memory (except a matrix I have drawn out on a clipboard to help me remember what to input). I single-stepped it through a NOP routine, with a JMP at the end to go to the beginning.


-The True Hacker

You write programs in hex?!

Hahaha. That's nothing. A college buddy of mine has memorized EVERY hex code for TI-83+ ASM.

Yeah, well I know that 00 is a NOP instruction! Ha!!</sarcasm>

In a lot cases the majority of development time is spent on non-code things... graphics, level design, testing, documentation, etc... things you'd get other people to do in the professional world. At least that's been my experience (well, with games anyway, other stuff can be more code-heavy). So while programming in asm probably will double the time you spend coding, that extra time is still often very small in the long run...

But then, who's to say you don't *want* to spend more time coding as opposed to doing all that other crap?

@cloud867:
I ment Asm for the z80 series. (maybe i should have mentioned that :p)

I know a little C for the 89/92+ because its alot easier to learn than asm. Also, both in C and asm, grayscale is created by flashing the pixels on and off at different intervals. (just to clear that up :D)

Now if only i had a 89 to test out my 89 programs I can make. :\

Ya, VTI isn't always that accurate on matters of Contrast and Speed.