I really think these Flash apps are a good idea, and this especially. It was really smart of TI to let people develop tehir own Flash Apps for the Flash upgradeable calcs.

And i have the same question as in comment #1
speaking of which, i get comment #2 (whee...)

yea, too bad it costs at least $99.99 ($100) to buy a flash app SDK and at most $299.99 ($300) to buy the professional (more signings).

I think this was a great idea and a good new service for a place like TICALC -- packaging related asm programs and also pooling resources to cut down on the cost of the sdk for an individual. Wouldn't it be OK to submit source code to a group for compiling into a flash program?

yea, the idea is excellent but the cost makes you choke.

I mean, how exactly does TI justify charging more for an SDK than for the actual calc?

I think TI justifies it by the fact that if you sell an application you write (one of the major reasons for having apps to begin with) you can make much more money than what you paid for the sdk. (They also give you special tech support, and a development certificate so you can run beta apps on your calculator)

-Dan

What if you develop a GPLed application/game (that's larger than 8kB)?
You want to give it out free, but that costs the $33 (third of Educational license).
And if someone adapts/expands the programs, he/she also has to pay.

IMHO, having commercial software on calculator is no reason to kill free software.

I think that TI should just put some sort of legal block on its calculator that prohibits selling software without a special license and let freeware be free.

I agree with you there, the 8k limit is moronic. I can see the reason for a limit (so that you can't just copy a commercial application as a program), but 8k is entirely too small.

-Dan

This is an incredible concept: allowing people to create FLASH programs so that TIs lazy errr...behinds dont have to do anything. Cool idea TCPA!

Everyone buy The Beatles' album "Let It Be", because it is awesome.

I am very impressed by TCPA's progress in the ti community. Their programs reflect the hard work they have put into making so many programs. This program pack is a giant leap in the 83+ Flash programming and I think a special thanks should go out to Dan for planting the seed in the flash programming community.

I wonder if Joe Wingbermuehle (the author of ION) is going to turn his shell into a flash app.

if Joe made it a flash app then it couldn't be run on the TI-83 and would ruin the whole point of ION working with both the 83 and 83+...though he could split it up and just make a seperate one for the plus.

--Juan

Also, as an app wouldn't it be required to take up the whole 16k block, and just for a shell?

After he expands it to a huge size

I wonder if he'll put basic program support into it.

Yes, just make the 83 plus verson an app and the 83 still stays a program, humm, maby that would work since the code would still be the same.

I'm just curious as to why this program was featured. It doesn't contain any new or updated games, it just combines four already released games. I know its a FLASH application, and those types of things are relatively new, but other than that - I don't see whats so significant.

It's very significant. I can't think of any other flash applications made by users for any calculators. It's always fun to have programs in flash, they have a way of sticking around. Can the ti-89 even have user generated flash-apps? (prior to version 2.01)

No.... The 89 couldn't have flash-apps before 2.01.. that's one of the things that TI is including in AMS 2.00.

Unlike programs on the 83+, most TI-89 programs can be run while they are archived. There isn't much of a need for flash programs for the TI-89.

wow Bryan, you sure are one Negative son of a... =P Your 'one word/sentance' replies on the A89 list have been very annoying lately too. Thanks for your positive contribution to the TI community recently. :)

Jason_K

I think it's significant cause these are some of the few games (if there are any other games) that don't run off of any shell. Plus they aren't lost when the RAM is cleared.

hmm....bryan is right! the flash app takes up more space than the four progs do.. so it is pointless! but i guess it is th efirst in its class
we need better compression and optimization!

ok, as i understand it, flash apps have to take up a certain amount of space. i have six apps, and three of them take up 16384 bytes (CBL/CBR, Calcsys, and PuzzPack) and the other three take up 32786 (ChemBio, Organize, and Physics). Now whether or not they will have one that will be twice the size of the second one, like 65536 bytes, or maybe thrice the first one, like 49152, just depends on how it all works. i don't know how it works, but having games that won't get deleted in a crash is worth using 16384 bytes in the massive archive space on the 83+. GOOD JOB TCPA!

Nathan

Dan explained above that FlashAPPS only come in multiples of 16k (16384 bytes). I'm guessing this is so that it would take up an entire block of memory, not just bits and pieces here and there. The only way around this problem of memory is to incorporate as much stuff into it as possible so as not to waste memory space.

~ferich

Yep, the z80 cpu used in the 8x series can only address 64k at a time. This 64k is split into four "banks" each of 16k. The flash rom on the 83+ is 512k, and divided into 32 16k "pages". (Ten of these pages are for applications and for storing data, and the rest are for the operating system.) To access more than the 64k usually allowed by the z80 cpu, the flash pages are swapped in and out of the banks. The size limitation is so that the apps will fit exactly onto these pages. As for Puzzpack, the actual code is about 15.7k of the 16k page it takes up. Calcsys uses about 15.9k of the 16k.

(Someone asked below how many apps you can fit on your calc. Well, if you have nothing else in your archive, and each app takes up one 16k page, you can have 10 apps. However, if you've archived data, or some of your apps take two or more pages, you'll be limited to less than 10 apps)

-Dan