Survey posted 2005-03-08 16:41 by Jon.

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It's a calculator, for crying out loud. If you want a calc with a speaker, buy a PDA or a computer. Speakers are only cool for games, and games (supposedly) aren't the reason most people buy $100+ calculators.

Actually they are ;)

No, they aren't. If someone was looking to buy a handheld device to play games on, they would buy a Gameboy...not a graphing calculator.

I did, I got my v200 for two reasons, games and programming.

I did too. I would say gaming capability influenced my purchase by about 30%, and the capability influenced it by 70%. My Ti-89 is my handheld gaming device, PDA, and calculator.

But you'll also use the thing for math. I hope. Otherwise if you bought a $200 graphing calculator soley to play games on and use as an organizer, you are a horrendously unwise consumer.

Actually, if you are a savvy shopper, a normal TI-89 can be found for less than $130 USD. Also, PDAs cheap enough to rival the TI-89, the palmOne Zire 21 and the palmOne Zire 31, aren't designed for gaming (I speak from developing experience). The Zire 21 has a grayscale screen (something that modern PDAs shouldn't have), lacks a back-light, and has only four of the normal six hardware buttons. The Zire 31 has a passive matrix (I really mean passive) lo-res color screen and (like the Zire 21) lacks two hardware buttons. Although the Zire 21 and 31 can be found at a cheaper price than the TI-89 if you look hard enough, they aren't worth it. The TI-89 would be a better choice (but any other PDA would be better in terms of hardware).

Just get a cell if you want good games. You will get all of the games for free (if you look hard enough). The best cell phone game outmatches the best calculator game by a long shot. But calculators still rock. I would like to see a combination cell phone and VTI.

Not if you have Verizon!

That's why Cingular rocks!

Actually, I bought my first TI calc...an 83+, because my friend's calc had DuckHunt...Also, it's a whole lot easier to convince your parents to buy you a calculator than it is to get them to buy you a gameboy... ;) I'm too old for them to buy me anything anymore though...BTW, I just bought a car off autotrader.com. It's a '90 Lincoln Towncar and it's in the best shape ever. I'm so excited :P

well, palm pilots can be programmable!

Not only that, but it's easier (IMHO), and you have more power and cooler hardware to work with.

V200S ROCK!

Not neccesarily. You can't program on your gameboy. The calculator is actually a very cool development environment, that is better than you might think to learn to program on.

well, actually it serves for two reasons. i think calculators are better then gameboys. u can use it at school to both help you and not let you get bored. sound would be a great addition and another chip wouldnt weight down the calculator that much.

Well...not the *only* reason...

It'd be cool to hear the Mario theme when playing Mario! Russian music with Tetris is a nice touch, too.

Then buy a Game Boy.

why spend even more money though. on a gameboy if u have an 130$ calculator.

Speakers? Nah, take up too much battery life. An internal buzzer, like the HP-49G+? Absolutely. I wouldn't have to carry my CBL2 around. In fact, TI just made calculators with the amazingly awesome hardware of the HP-49G+ calcs, and put the AMS on it, that would make the best calculator in the world. Right now we're looking at a classic example of better hardware (HP) vs. better software (TI). One of these companies needs to bridge the gap and make such a super-calculator. I would assume it's most possible from TI, as improving hardware doesn't take as much work as improving software design...copying other peoples hardware doesn't step on any copyright toes.

The HP calc has a buzzer?!? That would be an absolute blessing for two reasons: We'd have programs that let the user know when processing is complete (like integrating a complicated, multi-variable expression), and for game immersion!

Game immersion with a buzzer? 120d

*Mario jumps on a koopa* BUZZ *picks up a mushroom* BUZZ *falls into the water and dies* BUZZ

Hmmm...a speaker might be better. ;-)

You could h4x0r the calculator's OS and hardware so they could provide variable current to the buzzer, allowing for more than one possible frequency.

*Mario jumps on an enemy* HIGH-PITCHED BUZZ *Mario gets a mushroom* BUZZ *Mario dies* LOW-PITCHED BUZZ

Headphones are good for me! ;)

You could execute a series of different frequencies quickly to get some actual sound effects. That's how most Palm OS games create sound (including mine).

That's what I was thinkingwhen I posted this... but that would break a hole in my theory...

*Mario theme* buzz buzz (pause) buzz (pause) lowerBuzz buzz (pause) higherBuzz
See how that would work? Besides, it doesn't even sound like a "buzz"...it's more of a "beep." I actually programmed the mario theme into my 49g once...just made a program that was like:
<< {list of note frequencies} {length of notes} BEEP >>
It was so funny to see people's reactions when I told them I was playing mario on my calculator, then played the song. ;) They were so jealous of my HP...

The Basic Stamp 2 has a command like freqout 4, 1000, 4000
4 being the output
1000 being time in miliseconds
4000 being the frequency in herts

I've been able to put funky town on it.

No. It is terrible. It is the most irritating thing on that unusable doorstop with the possible exception of how it's implemented.

2+2 [ENTER] BEEP [ENTER] BEEP [ENTER] BEEP

They think it replaces meaningful error messages. You do something you don't know is wrong because of the complexity and arcaneness of the interface and it just sits there and beeps. Plus, the beep is that extremely irritating fingernails-on-a-chalkboard high reedy tone used solely to drive people up the wall. I despise it.

I'm not sure what your problem is. I just reset my 49 plus back to the factory default settings, and typed

2+2 [ENTER] BEEP [ENTER] BEEP [ENTER] BEEP

I got

2+2,4,4,4 - no beeps at all.

Maybe you are trying the rpn mode. If you enter rpn mode, and type it, you get

[2] [+]

Beep

"+ Error - Too Few Arguments" which makes sense, because addition needs 2 arguments and there was only 1 at the time you pressed +.

Why did you turn on the rpn mode if you didn't know how to use it? You can't blame the calculator for that.

Turning off the alarm beep is simple. Press MODE to enter the configuration screen. On the lwoer right is a cleck box marked beep. If you highlight it it says "Enable Standard Beep?". Uncheck it, and the beep on errors goes away.

The key phrase is "back to the factory default settings." The interface is so arcane that the ordinary user sometimes can't tell what's set before doing a calculation.

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The key phrase is "back to the factory default settings."
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Yes because I had customized the calculator the way I wanted it. My point was, when you first buy the calculator, it will work properly for your problem above. The only way that problem could possibly fail is if you change the interface over to rpn.

Why would you change to rpn if you don't know what it does? The manual clearly explains how to use rpn if you want to.

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The interface is so arcane that the ordinary user sometimes can't tell what's set before doing a calculation.
===

If it says 'ALG' in the upper right corner, that means its in algebraic mode (the default) and works like a texas. If its not then its in rpn mode which offers different advantages.

Its not a TI. Don't expect it to behave exactly like one.

>>Why would you change to rpn if you don't know what it does?

You wouldn't, voluntarily. The interface is so arcane, though, that you might not realize it. Don't ask me how, because I never could figure out how to use an HP, but things like this happened to me.

>>If it says 'ALG' in the upper right corner, that means its in algebraic mode (the default) and works like a texas. If its not then its in rpn mode which offers different advantages.

My point exactly.

>>Its not a TI.

Exactly. No TI would do anything like that. Buy a TI, I say.

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You wouldn't, voluntarily. The interface is so arcane, though, that you might not realize it. Don't ask me how, because I never could figure out how to use an HP, but things like this happened to me.
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To change into RPN mode from the default Algebraic mode, you press MODE. Then where it says 'Operating Mode', change it from 'Algebraic' to 'RPN'. I'd say you were diffling with the options without understanding what they meant, and came unstuck.

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My point exactly.
===

I'm not sure what your point is. You keep changing it.

Why is this whole thread even happening... the name of the site is TIcalc.org... not HPcalc.org...

:-P

All I know about the 2+2 example is that I didn't try any other buttons than 2,+,and ENTER, and it sat there and beeped. You apparently know how to use it. I don't see how you ever figured it out, but congratulations.

My point is that HPs ship with terrible software, the buzzer implementation being especially bad.

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All I know about the 2+2 example is that I didn't try any other buttons than 2,+,and ENTER, and it sat there and beeped.
===

The only possible explanation I can think of is that you set it to RPN mode, somehow. I suppose if you didn't know what RPN was it would be very confusing. Can you remember what the error message was?

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You apparently know how to use it. I don't see how you ever figured it out, but congratulations.
==

I read the manual =)

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My point is that HPs ship with terrible software, the buzzer implementation being especially bad.
==

The buzzer is trivial to turn off if it bothers you. I've already said how to do it. If you press MODE (which is where you adjust internal settings, and is mentioned about 4 pages into the manual), the BEEP checkbox stares you in the face.

Also, HP software, as I mentioned earlier, is much better. TI has so many things it could do to make their calcs run faster. Even the HP49g with its 4MHz processor is faster*** than any TI calc (most of which have processors 3 times as fast)
*** with CALCULATIONS: for integration TI just uses lookup tables and frequently can't integrate even simple integrals exactly because of it. That's the main thing TI is faster in.

TI code seems to be getting slower too. My 89Ti whith AMS 3.00 takes notisably more time to startup than my 89 whith AMS 2.09

HP software is an elegant, clean, and wonderful example of how to do absolutely nothing. It's like UNIX, sort of.

If your UI doesn't make sense to anybody but you, IT'S A BAD UI, NOT A STUPID USER. Stupid users are guys who:
-Use their CD drives as cupholders
-Try to fax documents by pressing them into the monitor
-Don't plug in peripherals
-Punch the keyboard
Stupid users are not guys who:
-Don't know RPN and don't know how to turn it off or on, or how to tell whether it's off or on, or that programs can turn it off or on, etc...
-Can't make sense of a bunch of commands that look like line noise to them
-Don't know that in certain situations, you have to type in Exec ("425VN9346BV0W302VNBB")
-Hate command lines, which, as we all know, are ever so elegant and clean but also don't make any sense to 99% of users
-Don't know all the terminology you learned in four years of college
-Are intimidated by 175 keyboard shortcuts and a buzzer to immediately tell you something's wrong

When you write something that only you can understand but is for public use, that's known as "writer-based prose." Whoever wrote HP UIs should have learned that in 9th grade.

If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and feed him for a lifetime...so instead of answering just one of his questions, I'm going to just say READ THE FRIGGIN' MANUAL and stop assuming it works like a TI. They give it to you for a reason.

RTFM.

The HP manual is horrible. It's incomplete writer-based prose and makes you fill in major gaps which make the calculator unusable except for those who think the same way as the technical "writers" who wrote it.

I'd love to read it. I got the same reaction out of reading it as when I tried to read a calculus book when I was 15, however.

Plus, I don't assume it works like a TI. I hope that it (a) works, and (b) is documented. Apparently, it almost works and is undocumented. I'd go for the TI, which really works and is very well documented.

One word: Qonos. http://hydrix.com

You know what something never made much sence to em about that project. If it is going to emulate the 89 and hp calcs wouldn't it need more buttons or something?

It flips open to show more keys... it is also supposed to be touchscreen.

You did not just say "Better software (TI)"...TI has (or had) the good hardware (before the 49g+)!!! Their software is horrible...why do you think a 4MHz HP 49g runs so much faster than a 12MHz 89??? TI has some major optimizations to do...I will admit their software is a bit more user friendly, but it is by no means better software!