Uhh... the reason you see shareware or commercial programs on the HP48 is that they are usually way too big to fit on anything other than a $50+ ROM card. Card rippers exist, but then you need at least a $150 RAM card because you want to keep some of your RAM for yourself. As copying would be incredibly easy on the TIs, keeping registered versions "locked into" one TI would:
a) limit this to the 92+, 89, and later models due to the serial number feature
b) really annoy people (like me) who prefer the freeware system, because other than some major ROM upgrade for my 92+, I'm not sure any program/library is worth more than 2 cents.

The price you listed for a ram card is for a HPram card. 3rd part ram card that work just as well are avialiable for 128K card = 25$US a 1 meg card =90$US. I have both the 128k ram card and the 1 meg ram card, and I could but do not copy ram cards. Some hp shareware doesn't even restrict the the the shareware versions. they just say to send 5$ or something like that if you like the program. If I think that it is a good program and I use it I usually send the money. I mean comeon its only 5 bucks. I could see asking a couple bucks for a simple spreadsheet program or something but there are only a few programs that are really worth 30-40$ and if I need them I will buy them even though my friend might have it already. Not all of use pirate software I think that although it may happen if a programer puts out a revolutionary or a really great program he will benifit, and hopefully conitinue to write great USEFULL programs instead of games. I would never pay money for a game on my calc no matter how great it is.

I don't really agree with the idea of shareware. We haven't had to pay for the programs before. But I disagree that a program isn't worth anything. It takes long hours for some of the good ASM programs and shells. These people are working hard to make something and aren't really getting anything for it.
Another thing would be all of the legal crap. Can you imagine being sued for copying a calculator prgm!!?
For now there isn't many programs that are worth much and the ones that would be worth something take up way too much MEM.
I have worked out a pretty good way of encrypting passwords, user names, and even program keys. You have to issue a different key to everyone though and mailing it to everyone is a pain. Then someone with a copy of the program could use your key or someone else's.
You'll see what I mean when I release Vshell for the TI-86. Please send Shell ideas to Aciddranetx
@yahoo.com and when I finish I'll email you a free copy of the shell. Who needs to pay for it anyway?
Thankx,
John Hughes

The real way to do this would be to have a cgi create a program that would only work on one calc, based on that calc's serial #. The 89 / 92+ are the only calcs I know of that have a unique serial number for each calc, so you could have the user input his serial # and then the output program would run only on that calculator. If done correctly, this would be virtually impossible to hack. There are problems though, such as if a buyer of the program upgraded his flash ROM.
If it is a quality game, there's no reason to believe that people would not be willing to pay $5 - $10, especially if they're getting something of the same quality as what they would pay 5 times for on the gameboy. All it takes is a group of coders with both the skill and organization to employ such.
The effect could be nothing but positive: if companies see that they can make the same money they are making on the gameboy as on calculators with a simple port, then the quality of games on the calculator platforms will sky rocket. Of course if you are of the sort that believes everything programmers work hard for should be free, with no return for the programmer (nothing short of socialism ;-) then you can just stick with the lower quality freeware and no one could care less.

I like the idea, and think it has potential. However, the fact still remains that there are many people who don't want to pay $5-$10 for a calculator game, on a machine that they already payed over $150 for. (seeing as you couldn't get this serial system to work on anything less than an 89/92+) You also have the problem that there are crackers out there with nothing better to do than sit for 6-7 hours poring over the program, working at decompiling it and cracking the lock. There is also the possibility of writing a VERY simple program that takes the algorithm that the program lock uses, combines it with your serial number, and generates the pass. There is just no way around the shareware crackers.

I myself would only pay if it was a VERY good game (and how would I know if I wanted it if the game was locked)

OMEGA

Any copy protection scheme can be defeated. All someone has to do is to disassemble the program (into basic assembly code, not source code), and spend a few hours tracing the program until they find the sections that deal with copy protection. They then find out how the program is encrypted, decrypt it (or pay for one copy of the key and decrypt it), remove the parts that deal with any copy protection, and distribute it on the Internet.

Even though not many people have the skills necessary to do so, it only takes one of them to do it as a challenge and put it on a web site to show their prowess.

If you have any ways you think would work against this, please discuss them with me by e-mail, as I am interested in this subject.

I for one think that it is a good idea. It might be encoragement for a good programer to create a revolutionary software program or package (that is a must have for calc users). For example look at some of the shareware programs for the hp48GX like Meta Kernal, for those of you who don't know what it is it is a complete overhaul of the HPOS and interface that runs a lighting fast speed and has amazing features. I have not seen a Program for a TI calc that even comes close to the power of MetaKernal for the HP. As far as having problems with hackers and distributing the final complete versions, yes this could and probably would happen but I think that the amount of honest people who would purchase the software would make it worth while for the programers.

some projects that I would like to see tackled are:
1- a good equation writer(instead of entering equations on the defalt line prompt for the ti-89 and ti-92. Possibly like RainEq for the HP48

2- a good spreadsheet program that can export to tabulated from for pc use. (like Xcell for the HP48)

3- a good text editor with a viewer that supports in line graphics, find replace, user fonts, different font sizes, italics, bold ect.... And a utility to turn a pretty print equation into into a graphics object). Much like the HP48s (AGROB, AVIEW, and EDEN, or MetaKernals editors)

4- A good graphics editor that supports greyscaled graphics, zooming in and out, and support for pictures larger then the screen size by using scroling) (like Ppaint or the Meta Kernal graphics editor for the hp48)

5- A good equation Library

4- A better memory manager then the built in one

I for one would like to see these programs as freeware but if it takes $ to make a programer to takle these programs rather then making anouther game I would be willing to pay a couple bucks.

If there was a program as powerfull as Meta Kernal or Earable for the Ti-89 or Ti-92 I would even pay up to 40$.

First, the whole idea of calc shareware is stupid. How many people are going to risk giving out their parents' (or their own) credit card numbers just to get a calculator program? And then consider the possibility of fraud (yes, it's now a felony to do that, but still...)

That said, I hope you realize there is a Y= editor for the TI-89 and TI-92+. On the 89, it's called diamond F1.

By the way, there are third-party companies making TI-89, 92+, and 73 applications for sale. The first one for the 89 and 92+ is called EE*Pro. You could petition someone to make a program that makes all these as applications that you could buy--not as shareware, but as the full-blown version. Whether it works or not, of course, is determined by certain "product certificates."

Click on the URL below my name to go to the TI web page and find out more.

You obviously don't understand what I mean by an equation writer. I am not talking about the Y= enviroment in which you enter equations to be plotted. I am talking about the way in which one has to enter equations into the ti-89,92. If you have a fairly long and complex equation to enter it would be nice to able to write the equations as
one would in MathCAd or Micro$ofts Equation writer that can be found in Microsoft Word. The Hp 48 has various programs that do this very fast and efficeintly. I find it extreemly cumbersome to type in long complex equations in the home or even Y= enviroment. It is very easy to misplace "(" or make a mistake. With the equation writer RainEq for the HP48 you can enter and edit the equation in pretty print form.

Shareware doesn't need to require that you give out a credit card #. Heck I would assume that most shareware (unless it was a very extensive program), would be about 5-10$. You could easily mail the programer a check if you want to be safe. But for 5$ programs I usually send cash (its only 5$ hardly worth the worry).

The whole reason I believe shareware might be beinificial is to encorage programers to make truely USEFULL programs (more Math or application based). I do not think that games should be shareware I would never pay money for a calculator game. I look at the EEPro package and was not impressed. I sure many ammature programers could do a better job for a smaller cost.

Aha, but mathematical programs usually don't need ASM, right? And basic is extremely easy, right? It took me one hour to learn BASIC from the TI89 manual. I now program loads of math stuff for my class. And so nobody will pay for these apps, see? And I hate paying, and I assume everyone does, so Freware really {censored}.

It's illegal to send cash through the mail, and some people don't have checking accounts. So some people would have to use a credit card if they wanted to remain legal.

Ever heard of money orders "Western Union" (If you don't have a checking account). I highly doubt the cops are going to show up at your door for sending a 5$ bill in the mail.

what is all this shit about credit cards not being safe on the internet .. there's not a solitary known case of someone being ripped off because they used their credit card to purchase on the web. really, why would a hacker (a malicious hacker) waste his / her time trying to intercept and then decrypt a credit card # when he can put the same effort in to cracking an intranet?

It's not safe in Europe because of the US export restriction on encryption technology, so we only have 40 bit encryption (can be cracked <1 day). That's because the US government is afraid that the Soviet Union will obtain strong enctyption technology.
(I know that the Soviet Union does not exist anymore and that they had their own strong encryption technology, but I'm not the US government.)

Actually, the USSR, Russia, Cuba, China, etc. all have access and do posessss strong crypto (PGP). The export laws are merely a stupid and bigoted attempt to keep crypto out of the hands of the people.

Yeah, okay, I've spent too much time in cypherpunkland.

I beg to differ. My credit card number was stolen from a so called "secure site". Don't state facts that you've made up.

That was not necessarily due to encryption, but may have been caused by bad security in other areas at the site you went to. Examples : your credit card number was not actually encrypted; someone looked at your credit card number after it had been sent on their server; an employee read it; someone read an invoice that had been thrown out; etc.

Frankly I've found it near impossible to get any good PC freeware off the internet (i used to be able to until all those freelance programers figured they could make an extra buck) and currently its the complete opposite with my calculator. I find the quality of these games to be excelent, and not in need of improvement. THe shareware abilty would just create an entire market and nobody would ever find any calc freeware again (except at a calc warez site). Now i would not want to pay for something with the same quality as the freeware... thats my opinion.

I think that this idea sucks! You dont want to be like Micro$oft, you hate them but yet you act like them?!? plus its a waste of mem!

Now I've got the idea that this shareware could be a good thing. The quality of programs for the TIs would become better. Maybe some good assembly math progs. And instead of going to ticalc.org everyday ... I'd just have to go to CalcWarez.com

First I just wanted to say that I'm sick of hearing people say "it's just a calculator". The capacity of a 89/92+ far beats the Gameboy in many aspects. Take for instance a Tetris game. You would be willing to pay $20-$30 (or whatever a GB game costs) for Tetris for GB but not a few bucks for the equal game on a 89/92 (if such a game had existed)? I can't see the logic...

The whole shareware concept is - more or less - impossible though since it's impossible to make a game impossible to hack. Unless someone creates some hardware requirement which you would have to plug into the link port while playing :-)

Of course, you are forgetting the fact that a game boy costs 110 bucks less than an 89, has a higher screen resolution, much better sound, and much MUCH better games. Thats why it's called a GAME boy. There is no comparison. Ever seen mortal combat 2 for the gameboy? Lets see THAT on an 89. Don't get me wrong, I love the 89, but it was never designed to be a gaming system. BTW, games are not $30.

The gameboy runs on a 2 mhz chip. The 89 runs on a 10 mhz chip. Compare the capabilities of both chips and you will find a fast differance of power between the 89 and gameboy. The 89 without a doubt is far more powerful. Add that with the ability to store multiple games/programs and the 89 is unquestionably more powerful. You forget that the programmers of most of the ti games are high school students(no offence to them, as they are extremly talented)and programmers of gameboy games are trained professionals. 89 is more then a gameboy without question.
My $ .02

Well, actually, the Game Boy Color runs on a Motorola 64k chip... sounds familiar? oh yeah, its the same chip in a TI89 or 92 ... :)

I wonder where everyone gets this flase information about the Gameboy. The Gameboy has a 4 MHz z80-like CPU that lacks the index registers and the I/O ports. The color Gameboy has the same CPU that is clocked at twice the speed (8MHz). The reason that the Gameboy is so useful when it comes th developing games is that it has special graphics hardware. On the TI-89 the CPU has to do everything itself.

I agree. Actually, the Gameboy does run on a Z80. If you go to Zilog's website, you will see that the Z80 is a 20 year ld chip that has been used in Radioshck computers. The instruction code is just different. Otherwise, the chip itself is the same. THE EXACT SAME!

Just because a chip runs at a faster clock speed doesn't mean it's more powerful. I can build a processor in my garage that runs at 3000 mhz, but it probably can't complete even 1 instruction per clock cycle, so it's no more powerful than my calculator. In fact it sucks in comparison.