Aside from the "it was Klik & Play" stuff, I have
some issues with an idea like this. Great idea,
beautiful concept, noble and far reaching.

Feasible? Not by any means. The kind of stuff you
are asking for is too hard to implement on a 6 mHz processor with 128k with only 96k usable
anyway. Then you have to realize the other
calculators, where they only have 28k usable. Game libraries would eat up way too much room to be workable in that kind of situation. Plus, generalized code will ALWAYS be slower than fine tuned routines by a human programmer.

Overall, I think that a generalized game creation package would hurt the overall quality of games in the community. Klik and Play produced some horrible abominations (I know, I was one of the suckers who bought a copy), terribly large, and not worth playing. Games are something that need a human touch to be any good, humans add a spark of originality and flair to a game - with a computer generated "game in a box," we risk losing what makes any game good in the first place - originality.

So, as I said, your ideas are good, but in reality, I don't believe it would be worth the effort put into making a game programming kit.

This is to all who have said "it won't wok on a calc" or something to that degree. If you read through I beleive he said and I quote

"Due to the requirements of this program it would probably have to be made to run in Windows 95/98 or Mac OS 8, not DOS."

ie- NOT ON THE CALC. It would make an Asm file compile it then it could be sent to the calc (I guess. Just wanted to point that out.

I suppose that most of you are right about a TI K&P. It would produce a flood of lame, uninspired games, but I don't think that that's the point. Most people, such as myself, don't take pleasure in making good games (well not so much), but rather like making games. There's nothing more frustrating than having a good idea and having nothing to do with it. Someone above mentioned Kai's Power Goo not being able to replace Adobe Photoshop. But does anyone actually use Kai's Power Goo for professional projects? No. They do it for fun. They show it to their friends and laugh about it. It's a hobby, and you don't have to be good at a hobby. You just have to like it. I remember getting a thrill just today, being able to make a Hello World! application for OS-82!

BTW, check out my site if you wanna see the ultimate in lame K&P (actually it's made in a later version of K&P, Click & Create).

Perfect IDEA!
infact, i program under visual basic since a long time, and i tried to make a program to convert Fargo 1 source to Fargo 2 source, which worked fine, only that it didn't work with all programs.
I think this idea is very good and i wouldn't mind working with someone who can tip me on asm programming.

just send me a mail, or reply to this message.
The ti-92 needs more programs to compete with the HP. and this way is the only way to encourage ppl into making more stuff for this amazing calc (espesailly with the plus module which i just added)

I think this may be a good idea if it were used properly. I am working on a project similar to that for my X-Files RPG. It will allow people to make their own scenarios. I don't think it should go much further than that, however. I wouldn't want to see something like this because it is similar to those HTML editors like front page. I don't like these kinds of programs because it allows people to make their own games without having to learn the programming language. This would make all those years of learning how to program in over 10 different languages worthless. I also think that the person who wrote such a program wouldn't recieve due credit in the programs it generates. Such a program would be a field day for software piraters who want to steal credit for writting generated programs. However such a program does have its advantages. There are many people I have met who have excellent ideas for games, but don't know how to program. This could lead to many new types of games, but I still think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.

Clarification and Justifiction.
First of all I apologize for the Plug and Play vs. Klik and Play thing.
Clarifiction:
I WAS thinking that the actual program would be for the PC or MAC not on the calc, the output would be an ASM file or straight out progrm or string file. By librries I meant game specific Libs like in Joltima 86 and simCommunity 86.
Justification:
A lot of people seem to be talking about a possibility of many clone games, but look at the Zelda series the first four games were basically clones of eachother with a differnt story and different plots, yet gamers love them. Another example side scrolling fighters like Double Dragon and River City Ransom, which basically use the same engine as zelda just a skewed view and a locked in path. By using there imaginations game makers could come up with a variety of killer games.
Finally the program should be expandable, if a programmer releass a new killr ASM routine or awesome effct they should be able to make into an applet to add into the Klik and Play program giving users even more versatility in the long run.

Well, it seems that we both had the same intention (directed to the author), but both had its pitfalls. It seems that what we are trying to do is inspire people to make a type of program or engine or skeleton or whatever that can SIMPLIFY programming. Note I said simplify, not make programming a simple process. I know about super steep learning curves (i've used 3d studio max, and now i consider myself pretty good on it, after about a year of practice), and asm has one of these. No one bothers to make anything to make basic any easier than it is, since it is easy to step in and make a game. Asm is different, in that you can do a lot with it, but it is difficult to do that with it. But if we can somehow do something to make it easier to work with, learn, etc., that is the step that I or the author of this article actually wants, its just that engines and game creators were the obvious, but not the most feasible, choice. But remember, we do not want to make asm easy as 1-2-3 or A-B-C, since that would be impossible. We just want it a bit easier to jump into and learn, and easier to program with, using other things to help.

Alan Wong
Damnation

Great idea, but one problem. Say you were an asm programmer who spent hours, upon hours to make a good game. But know there is this Klik and Play program. Now you can make a similar (but less entertaing) game in say half an hour. I believe this would be great for novices, etc. But I also believe it would seriously downgrade the quaility of what could have beeen great games.

this goes back to the past article too, but what I think is needed is less "skeletal" programs or engines and more cooperation between programmers, etc. Whether it is wrong to compare it to big companies or not, I think it is best to work on a team...i.e. some develop ideas, some code, some do grafx, some test...etc. If you get together 8 or so people like that there is no end to the quality you could put together as compared to this engine idea....

I don't think too many good games will come out of a program like that because the calc is just too slow. But my point is that maybe it shouln't be used to make games, but rather math programs - a category that could really use some improvement. This way it won't matter if all the programs look alike, because it would make using it a lot easier for the user - same interface, buttons, etc.
Also, the routines that the program would produce would go in a shared library or something - reducing the size of the code considerably. So, it's a pretty good idea, but not for games....Anyone agree?

Hahahahahahaha.... etc.
Whatever happens, we can only hope that the evil of Klik 'n' Play never comes to the world of TI calculators. Only having people who have logical enough minds to write assembly programs be able to make TI-8x games is a great way to protect against horrible programs.

If you have an 86, your in luck....
I am seeing tons of articles that go on and on about making programming easier and helping Basic programmers close the gap between Basic and Assembly. I know how to program in ASM, but that doesn't mean I like doing it! I hate programming on a computer and transferring it to my calc. If your like me or your a Basic programmer who wants to make awesome asm games, wait for HAL-IC. HAL-IC stands for Higher Assembly Language Internal Compiler. It is being created by Eggplant software and is due for release between now and October. HAL-IC will allow you to write in Basic and Asm on your calc!! It also includes extra Basic commands for the Link cable, sprites, Variable manipulation, modules, sound, APD, and more. If it turns out to be all that its says it will, it will be the awesomest utility ever made!!
I have been keeping up with HAL-IC and it shows great promise. Programs created with HAL-IC wont be as optimized, but they will Definitely narrow the gap between basic and Asm and allow more Basic prgrammers with good ideas to make cool games!! For more info, point your browser to http://members.aol.com/EggplFarms/HAL/

That was an idea I had a while ago, and I'm glad someone is finally developing it! But after reading the page, I didn't get the feeling that it would run on either my TI-83 or my TI-89. Now, if I could only learn Assembly...

-Miles Raymond

Just a technical thing, The Maxis game creating program was called Klik n' Play, not Plug and Play.

Good effort, bad idea. A more complex language than assembly would be good, but the idea of a game creating program would just be too boring. What is necessary for good gaming is intelligent, involved programmers. What this would do is allow every moron with spare time invent some uninspired oversized file with a creative name like "joe's game". This is not what anybody would like to see happen to the currently fabulous genius petrie dish that we call the TIcalc community. Also, if there was such a program, I for one would not have become so involved in programming. If I were not forced to learn assembly in order to make coherent games, I wouldn't know anything about the basics of programming or how the TI works. The current system forces education upon us which is ALWAYS a good thing.

i think that this is a good idea and agree with the person that said it would just be for entertainment and not to create good games...i for one loved to make crap on Klik and Play...not that they were good gamez or nething but just because it gave me something to do if i got bored...and yes i think to write a program like this would be extremely hard or even impossible...but it wont hurt to try...the point of this would be not to create good quality games...but to give you something to do if you dont have a date on friday night :)

I guess it won't work on a TI. IF it worked, the games would be very "stripped-down" versions of ONe game, with different levels and graphics ONLY. Just keep programming and not think of these utopic ideas. For things like that buy a tiny laptop. (Toshiba Libretto(C) 100)
Ok Games are fun on a calculator. (especially during a booooring lesson) But don't forget the real use of it.
-PMJ- AT

i think that is a great idea but i have a differnt idea see im saving to get a ti-86 and well i have a ton of programs for it and hve no calc i think that they sohuld make a program for you pc that you can play the game befour you place it on your calc. that way you know what the game is and weather you like it or not and i will get my ti in about two more weeks if any one heres of a web site that does have a program like that please e-mail me at Thomas.Powis@msn.com

Are you stupid or what??? Your "thing that plays calculator programs on your computer" is called an EMULATOR!!! You stupid ass! Don't you think about these things before you write them???

Come on, if you wana make a game that badly, just learn asm or if that's too hard, you can even program in (gasp) BASIC! If it's a simple level editor you want, download Super Mario 8x or something. True a "skeleton game" isn't a bad thought, there's just no place for it to fill.

Well, I think the basic idea is a good one, if as said earlier for nothing other than seeing how the code is used. My fist TI was an 82, I personally liked it and quickly learned basic from just messing around. My first actual game was a simple RPG type, you basically pushed enter and read. After a while I got the Breakout program and after some more messing around I figured out how to change the levels, and add some extra bricks. The game itself was boring but just feeling like I did something by changing the levels was really enjoywable, well, I lost my calculator the next day so I never really messed around that much.

I had an 85 for like a year before that got ripped off along with my bag. So I did very little with it. Wich leads me to getting an 86. I've messed around more and came up with some dorky things but it's still fun, I don't think I have any game for longer than a week, other than a simple guessing one, but I learned about the Asembly. at first I was exceedingly excited untill I tried to learn it. All I've come up with is that it uses memory and if you mess up it kills your calc. . .

Needelss to say I'm reluctant to try anything till I get a graph link. Now that I've told my life story I'll try to get to the point. A program like this would alow poeple to just do simple commands, like a getkey fuction or a random thing, to just learn the basics and what they do. Once things are understood, and shown, realprograms can be acomplished by putting the pieces together. And since it is a calculator, not a game boy, it should be primarily for learning. (and as stated before only used in the emergancy of a really boring lession)

Michael.
<who by now has run out of two-cent pieces.>