Now to get a pocket PC...

Yes, now an excuse for me to buy a new toy.

now all I need is an emulator for a pocket pc...

lol have one emulator run another

[on pc run the pocket pc emu, then inside the pocket pc emu run ti 89 emu???]

yea, now all we need is a pc emulator for a 92, then put the pocket pc emulator on there, then run the 89 emulator on there...

Sorry to break your bubble, but the TI-68k can only allocate blocks of <= 65535o ( =64Ko). Thus, you need at least 10 blocks of RAM to emulate even a 640Ko pc. But that actually has 1Mo (=1048576o) of RAM, so compression is likely required.

As you may be able to tell, I'm switching from bytes to octets. They're more portable.

New word! Compressino - one basic unit of compressed data. (one compressed bit?)

You can't define one unit of compressed data.

I have one partition of my hard drive that uses drive compression, and the ammount of space a file takes up on the drive varies wildly depending on how efficiently the source file uses space.

An MP3 absolutely cannot be compressed further
An MPEG4 AVI can only be compressed by less than 5%
A folder full of text files can be compressed extremely well...

A standardized unit of compressed space would not be very accurate, as the ammount of data that could be stored in that space would vary depending on the type of source data.

Say what? How's that an excuse to get one? Your mom could just say to get an 89 instead (which is a better choice indeed :p) than that..and it's definitely not an excuse if you've already got an 89 lol.

PPC's are such a waste of money...go buy an expensive gun scope or something lol

I hope this will work on my ipaq3600...
Anyways, this seems like a very interesting project.

A TI-89 is like $400 cheaper than a PDA and does more. I know I'm ranting into the wilderness, but why would anybody buy a Pocket PC?

Because they already have one?
(Note: people who already have a PDA, and don't feel like buying an 89, can't use this, as the ROM is copyrighted.)

Yeah, I don't think that many people who have a Pocket PC, but not an 89 will hear about this because they don't come to this site. Also, if someone has a Pockect PC and a calculator, what good would it be to have an emulator on the PDA? Its like having a slightly more unstable version of what you have in your other hand. This is still a good development, and its cool that someone made it.

I still think it's a good idea

To quote many well-known films, "You aren't paid to think."

Just because it's a *cool* idea doesn't mean it's a *good* one. Spending $200-$800 on a PocketPC and $150 on a TI-89 just so you can have a buggy TI-89 is a ridiculous concept. People in the "real world" (i.e. people such as myself who have learned how to handle finances) will understand this.

The concept may be ridiculous but its not about emulating a ti-89 on a pocket-pc for practical purposes, its about doing it to see if you can. At least thats the way it would be for me.

Great point! that's exactly what I myself was thinking. Who cares how "good" a program is. It's the CONCEPT that can be used in more advanced programs that makes the program itself good (this is my opinion)

The problem is that the concept isn't NEW, or even INNOVATIVE. It's just another emulator for another system on another computer. The idea isn't really that exciting. Now, if we could have an emulator for, say, a Commodore 64 on the TI-89 or TI-83+, then I might say it was worthwhile. However, if you are ever in a situation where getting the equipment to run an emulator for a device costs more than the device itself (and that was the only purpose you bought the equipment for), you are wasting your money.

bizpile: "its not about emulating a ti-89 on a pocket-pc for practical purposes, its about doing it to see if you can."

You can do ANYTHING to see if you can. For example:
Try cutting off your fingers. Do it to see if you can.
That's a REALLY bad reason to do anything.

Why do you have to be so hostile? Click the link. Maybe it will calm you down a bit...

How was that interpreted as hostile? I was simply stating that their reasoning was flawed (that you should do something simply because you can) by using an extreme example. I'm not angry, upset, etc. I just wanted to point out the problem with their logic.

Yea, I'm with you on this one. I really don't see the point. But about the copyrighted ROM thing, can't you just download the hex file from the TI-site?

... the hex file?
I assume you mean the AMS... and yes, you can. However, I think that in the EULA you have to agree to to download the AMS, it says something about using it without owning the calculator, or some such stuff. It's too late for me to go check.

I've just read the EULA, and it says nothing about owning a calculator. They probably just figure that anyone who downloads it would put on their calculator.

Very nice!

Calm down dude!
So you think that the entire concept of VTI sucks? I mean, where can you buy a computer for less than the price of a calc... "But a computer can do more than just emulating a calc" you say. Read my previous post (second in the thread), maybe people already have a pocket pc, and would like to emulate their calc on it so they don't have to carry two devices everywhere.
Of course you can do anything you want, but in the case of writing Pocket VTI, you could actually learn something from it. Maybe you have to research the calcs hardware to emulate it properly and find something nobidy else found out before. (Yeah, cutting of your fingers could learn you not to play with knives, but I really hope you see the difference.)

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK I SOUND UPSET?
I'm not! I'm just pointing out logical errors by using extremes! If the cost of some activity outweighs the gain, then it's probably a bad idea.

You make the argument that PocketVTI gives people an opportunity to learn about the hardware of the PocketPC. How is this so, when all they're doing is using a pre-made emulator? Sure, the author had to do some research (and he learned something in the process), but everyone else is gaining about as much knowledge of the PocketPC as your average gamer gains from playing their GameCube (or whatever).

Probably because you are shouting a lot.
I did mean the author. Have you thought about the fact that the author can share his new-found knowledge with the rest of the community?

Omg...hush already, you words are carrying with them a aura that hurts the animal mind of doing out of desire...*raises paws to ears* AHH! MAKE IT STOP! AHHH!

LOL... you haven't been here in a long while...

In other words: Nobody is really gaining anything worthwhile out of this other than the author, who gained experience in programming for the PocketPC and learned a lot about the TI-89.

So now the TI community reaps the benefits of more and better programs.

The other point is that nobody really gives a crap if its worth it or not. If they want to do it, let them do it. Who cares? I dont. If they have the time and patience to mess around with it then so be it. It really isn't a matter of whether or not you gain anything from it - it is just the sense of "hey i did it" that matters to the author, and to the users it is probably just the curiousity or the fact that they can do this that matters. I understand what you are saying and agree to a certain extent - but it's not a big deal. Anyway, whatever.

I've been looking for somthing like this for a while. I have a TI-89 and an IPAQ 1935. I carry the TI-89 in my bag and have it with me most times, but my IPAQ is much smaller and more accessable for me.

This provides me with my TI-89 all the time without having to carry two devices around. Still need both, but don't have to carry the TI-89 all the time.

i dunno, i kinda agree with jrock, and with your post, it doesent have to be innovative, you cant base some ones reason for making a file on your own belifs, i may not be a very good programmer, but i know i dont let a few people keep me from attaining my goals..., why does anyone have the right to cut down someones elses work, maybe you dont want to carry around the 89 and a pocket pc their both kinda big in the pocket...

You have two pockets

Uh..... maybe you have a TI-83+SE in the other pocket? LOL

i love my 83+se, i think it has the easiest and most staitforeward menus, plus you always see more stuff devoloped for it, even though it is not as advanced

I like the TI-89 menus :)

And I favor the TI-85 menus!

NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! lol

Well, they're both kind of similar, at least in that they are an actual menu at the bottom or top of the screen that doesn't interfere with the text you type. As opposed to an 83, where the menu is a page sized list of options.

Actually, on second thought, the 85/86 isn't fair to people with poor eyesight. Err, no, the text on the buttons is about the same size as the text on the menu screen of an 85/86.

That means, TIs entire line of calculators aren't fair to people with poor eyesight. Someone should report them to whoever was responsible for there being a handicapped parking space at the karate center I used to take classes at.

once you cut the fingers off one hand... where would you hold the knife?

Oh... the mysteries of life!

MWM

With the other hand?

Just like that guy that made the floppy RAID device using MacOS X a few months ago. It had no point, but you CAN do it!

Yes!!! Another nerd!!! Do you want to join my Nerd Guild? (You need to take on an apprentice within 3 years. I already have one, if not in name.)

Right, but if they already have the Pocket PC... there's a great reason for getting the program. Anyway, *cool* ideas are *cool*, and I guess *cool* and *good* are a matter of opinion anyway.

<evil smile>Besides, you need a ROM for the calculator, which means you have to own the calculator from the first place. It's not like you can just randomly downloads ROMs off the internet or anything... ;-)</evil smile>

Uh... You can use TI-89 and TI-92 Plus AMS's as ROMs, at least on the old version of VTI. And the AMS's can be downloaded for free, without needing an 89, off TI's website (education.ti.com).

Hence the "<evil smile>" things around the text...

Yeah, I found a site with 50-some different ROMs on it. *clicky*

Actually, there's a good use for this -
you don't have to carry both the calc and the PDA around (they both won't fit into your pocket!)

I stopped carrying around my calculator when my classes stopped requiring them. But once a blue moon, when I need to do a quick computation, I miss it - this project is great news for me.

Besides, TI seems to have gotten the message too, with the Voyage 200.

The problem with "not carrying both around" is that PocketVTI is buggy at best, unusable at worst.

Scary thing is - I only ever use my calculator for *calculating* anymore. As in calculating *&$%# standard deviations, and solving diff-eqs.

You, sir, are a better man than I. I'm currently using my TI-89 to write a LISP interpreter.

For those who I just intrigued: It'll take me a while. Be patient.

Do you mean you're writing a Lisp interpreter *for* the TI-89? That would be cool to have Lisp on the calc (even though I am only vaguely familiar with Lisp at the moment).

Yep, I'm writing an interpreter *for* it. As in, one that runs on the calculator. It's still pretty slow-going, but I've got a basic input splitter and parser... now I just have to start implementing commands, which will take forever.

weee, LISP is great :D
to bad I don't own a 89 only a 83 :(

Why is that scary?

The use would be two fold in that:
A. A pocketPC is usually smaller than a ti-89, and can actually be carried somewhat effectively in one's pocket
B. This person now only needs to carry one of these two items at a given time.

Now, and emulated TI-89 would not be very useful for a calculator gaming enthusiast, but if this person just uses it for number crunching with nice friendly CAS support, being able to use it on a PocketPC would be quite useful.

I don't have a PocketPC, but I imagine this emulator would find it's way onto mine if I ever did get one, just because it's always nice to have a CAS when you are feeling lazy.

Nobody's stopping them from getting the ROM from epsstore.ti.com...

Hmm, how many copies of a ROM can I actually have? and how many different platforms can I run them on? ie: If I were to have it on my calc, on my computer VTI, and on a PocketPC, then say I sold my PocketPC with the ROM still on the calc and the PocketPC still legally registered under my name would that be illegal?

You stupid fool! A PDA has COLOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and it can connect to the Internet Wireless!!!

1) Don't flame.

2) TI-89 has internet capacity if you add a browser, modem, and the correct adapters (the three easiest parts)

3) TI-89 has grayscale, and with the right interfacing, you can fool a computer/printer/internet host that you have color.

4) ti89tcp and sdriver (the two main programs used to interface, minus the as-yet-unwritten browser) can connect at 56K, which is a lot faster than wireless, and can be made to connect without wires through a cellphone. Show me a PDA with an external modem connecting at 56K.

5) The point was that the PDA is obsolete in 6 months, runs <shudder> Windows CE </shudder> and will be $100 more expensive in that period of time. The monetary difference between the upgrade and the old model, in 6 months, will be the cost of a TI-89 plus $35.

6) I'd trade color for $400 if I could keep grayscale.

How is 56k faster than wireless ethernet, like that which can be found all over my school's campus? We get upwards of 100KB/s downloads - wires not included.

I think he means wireless on a PDA.

That's exactly what I meant, too. My Visor has a wireless Ethernet adaptor.

Some PDAs have wireless internet connectivity at obscene prices through cell phone type networks, and this access is available anywhere that you get digital coverage for your cell phone.

This internet access is very slow, but is roughly the same speed as dialup, not slower.

Also, the price makes it of very little practical use unless you are a rich business man or a recent lottery winner, considering that you pay as much as you would for broadband (or more) to surf at dialup speeds on a very small screen.

Personally I'd rather just check my E-mail when I get home.

My Visor's wireless ethernet connects via the numerous wireless relays they have set up all over my campus. It's free!

I use 802.11b Wi-fi and its faster than 56K

For those of us who aren't in that situation, there's dialup. Anyone with a phone line can use it.

What are you talking about?!?!? How can you even hint of saying that a TI-89 is more useful than a Pocket PC. Pocket PC's have pens and sound and color and wireless internet and Microsoft Excel (don't tell me that the data editor matches this) and they have color ebooks and they have a good, USEFUL organizer that reminds you of stuff and they are much faster and they have like 98 times more memory and they are lighter and they don't crash (and even if they do, it's not serious) and they can have a virus protector and they are more durable and they have handwriting recognizer and they have Microsoft Word and the battery is rechaergable and you can make COLORFUL GAMES ON THEM!!!

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!

What about the color version of the v200 that was announced April 1?

It wass the v400 ;)

I seriously hope you're joking.

Haha... if people really still believe that...

Joking? It's right there on my shelf, next to my HW1 V200 and my TI-84 and my COLOSSUS etc.

Oh wow! THREE colors! Where's the backlit display?

Oh wow! What the heck are you talking about? THE VOYAGER 400 ISN'T REAL. The voyager 400 was supposed to have MORE than three colors anyway.

My IPAQ 1935 is a great cheap Pocket PC. $200 after rebate. Anyone who thinks the TI-89 is better than the IPAQ has obviously not done any comparison. The only thing I feel the Pocket PC lacks is a good scientific calculator for it, which this will give it. You can't replace your calculator, but this makes it much easier for people with Pocket PC to get the most out of them.

Well...maybe a TI-89 emulator...

I'm just saying that a TI-89 is better for MOST PEOPLE who do not need color on a portable device, people who have never seen a computer, people who have never seen anything run on electricity, people who need a computer who CANNOT PAY $500 OR $200 OR WHATEVER. I, for instance, cannot pay for an Ipaq. I have a V200, though, and like it, and use it just fine because it is ALL I NEED. People who are professional printers, artists, whatever, need a color screen and I respect that. Also, I HATE WINDOWS CE! I don't want to use it!
BTW, all that stuff can be used with an 89. Word and Excel, in kind terms, could be a lot better. I have a screenshot of Word checking a document's spelling and ignoring the first two letters of a word (Parentheses=rentheses=enthuses). That simply stinks. There are other limitations, for instance. Symbols are displayed as a matrix of pictures, instead of in a menu. Example: Which is better-Text Editor or Notepad? (the answer is Text Editor). Text Editor is not DTP and I'm not trying to say it is. Morvlon 3.00 has more than all of the features of Windows XP (not CE), and it does have DTP and integrated statistical and graphical analysis with spreadsheets. All I need is TI-AMS. The AMS never crashes if you program carefully and I would think that the 89 would be more useful that a Pocket PC if it does all that a PC does. If anybody cared to write drivers and viruscanners for the AMS then they would, could, and they would work better than MS-CRAP. They have sound. They have color in the form of grayscale, which is REALLY USEFUL if you have a laser printer which a lot of institutions do and you want to see what it will look like when it comes out of the printer.

The term 'better' also includes cost. Cost is a feature. If you want a TI-89 for $128.75, check out the link and see. Whoa. An Ipaq will cost from $210 to $500, and will actually not work as well. MS's formats are actually not that good. EVERYBODY ELSE uses .xml for documents, and EVERYBODY can read xml documents with a browser. If you want to read a Word document, you have to buy Word. More durable? Have you ever dropped a TI? My 83+ was run over by a car! IT STILL WORKS! The reason the battery is rechargeable is that it is made for the device. TIs use AAAs and thus don't need expensive special batteries which cost like $85 and eventually wear out. Plus, by the time they wear out, you can't find them anywhere because they discontinued them. So you have to spend another $500 on a NEW Ipaq. You can get rechargeable AAAs too if you want. Memory and other hardware-based things are expandable on the TI. Internal CD drives, USB memory sticks, and other methods can all be connected to the link port. Think, buddy. This site is ABOUT how to program all this stuff into the device. So what if TIOS doesn't do it? Buy Morvlon 3.00 when it comes out from www.oahat.org/morvlon.htm for $25.00 (10% of Windows costs) and see. Just wait a SHORT TIME and see. It's possible.

Haha, you handled that better than I did. :) Though, I think my reply is funnier, in the way that I flamed back. :-D

First of all, this is a CALCULATOR site. People are SUPPOSED to like calculators.

>>"Pocket PC's have pens..."
Let me tell you, that is the #1 reason that I'd buy one.
>>>"...and sound and color..."
The TI-89 CAN make sound (AM radio thing/make own earpiece), and color makes the batteries drain faster :-P
>>>"...wireless internet..."
Hope you're rich and willing to pay a lot of money
>>>"Microsoft Excel (don't tell me that the data editor matches this)"
TI-Cell sheet?
>>>"color ebooks"
LOL... I won't even go there
>>>"they have a good, USEFUL organizer that reminds you of stuff"
Have you even tried the Organizer APP? (You need a HW2 for it to be of any use) And if you want to REALLY be reminded, leave a note on the home screen... is it THAT hard to remind yourself of something!?
>>>"they are much faster and they have like 98 times more memory and they are lighter"
The speed and memory are better... but now, what does the WEIGHT of it have to do with anything!? I'm so weak, help me, I can't lift my big TI-89...
>>>"and they don't crash (and even if they do, it's not serious)"
Well, if you knew how to use a TI-89 correctly... and I bet you I could make your pocketPC crash faster than you could get my calc to crash (get a kernel, archive important data, duh).
>>>"and they can have a virus protector..."
AND MY TI-89 HAS GUESS THE NUMBER IN BASIC! SO HA! MY REASON IS BETTER THAN YOURS! (Who needs a virus protector for a calculator? That's like getting a virus protector for a MAC... in fact, who needs one for a pocketPC anyway!?)
>>>"and they are more durable"
The TI-89 isn't????
>>>"and they have handwriting recognizer"
Oookay.......

>>"color ebooks"
>LOL... I won't even go there
I will. Obviously, the only reason he likes color ebooks is because he just looks at the pictures. Those big words are too hard! >_<

(continued)
>>>"and they have Microsoft Word"
I bet you I can type over 35 words per minute on my TI-89 in the dark in the text editor. Why should I need word? (I should time myself to get an exact wpm rate)
>>>"and the battery is rechaergable"
If you can afford all of these things on a PocketPC, then you should be able to afford AAA batteries.
>>>"and you can make COLORFUL GAMES ON THEM!!!"
I can make GRAYSCALE GAMES ON MY TI-89! WOOOOOOO!
>>>"WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT!?!?!?!?!?"
Heh.

Are you allowed to use it on the SAT?
Can it do 3D graphing for you?
Can it use pretty print and solve complex equations (including calculus) for you?
Can you use it to cheat on a test? ;-) lol
Does this site have any software for PocketPCs?

Right, I'm in a bad mood right now. So... yeah. Okay. TI-89.

First of all, "what more do you want" was a rhetorical question.

Second of all, the TI-89 is 80s technology
it's like comparing Pacman to Super Smash Brothers

Third of all.........well whatever! YOU GET THE POINT!

Except not... the TI-89 wasn't made in the 80's.

But the MC68000 was.

Don't many PocketPC's use processors from the 80's also?

The MC68000 used in the TI-89 is a new version-I've seen it, and it's surface mount. They did not have surface mount in the 80s. If the 89 was based on 80s technology, it would emit so much heat you'd have to have a fan, could not hold the device, and it would eat batteries like popcorn.

Some people happen to like the old classics like PacMan.

-TrumpetMan

1) pda's now adays dont use windows ce, obviously obsolete, they use windows pocket 2001
2) wireless even the most basic 802.11b runs at 11-22mbps, which means that 56k would be a tugboat compared to a oceanliner...
3) 89, no touchscreen, makes browsing that much harder
4) notice unwritten browser, which means your option just really insnt feasable

a tug can pull an ocean liner...

and about the browsing thing: Lynx or w3m uses the keyboard only, and mostly the arrow keys anyway. (I prefer w3m.)

Look in the 89 prgram updates. Do you want a demo of the browser, which will let you navigate a sample website (but nothing else-it's only a demo)? I'll email it to you.

So can a calculator. Haven't you ever heard of Telnet 83? It can act as a vterminal emulator when connected to a modem and cellphone with a black GraphLink.

I saw an uploaded file called "More Testing" with description dgfgdfgf, and now it's gone. wtf?

It was probably stupid...

PRGM: MRTESTIN
:DISP "MORE TESTING..."

No, when you actually looked at the file it was some Algebra program that Morgan Davies made a year ago.

Oh, okay. Maybe he didn't want it anymore? I don't know... *shrug*

If I had to guess, I'd say the TI-Calc staff was testing something. The fact that it was Morgan's math program gives me the idea it was probably MORGAN who was testing something...think man...

Yep... just making sure everything works for you guys. :-)

Yes, I was testing some stuff. The move to the new server resulted in some unexpected stuff and so I was simply testing some stuff with the file archives. Give it up for Magnus, he has done much more than it appears he has been doing the past few weeks. I tried to make it as easy on Magnus by doing as much as I could.