Cool! But why did they wait so long time?

TI has been working on the Advanced Mathematics Software to make it easier for developers. They are now in the alpha-testing phase, trying to overcome some technical difficulties before they release a beta version.

Interesting... I hope it won't push TI_GCC into the background, but I don't think it will. After all, this is for math software, not games.

It will not definitely push TIGCC into the background. I can not say exactly why at the moment, but I am sure about it. This is all what I want to say now. We will discuss about it after SDK is released.

Great! Now we can speculate wildly about what Zeljco means while we wait!
Seriously, though, that's good news, I think. It would be a shame if TI-GCC was replaced entirely by the SDK. A lot of hard work has gone into TI-GCC. (Anyway, the SDK won't have the ability to make grayscale programs or DoorsOS programs or programs that use libraries because those are not "official" TI things, and it certainly won't have features that circumvent TI's protection schemes!).

not necessarily...doorsos is just an easy way of doing _ROM_CALL_'s easier...ex:
doorsos::DrawStrXY equ _ROM_CALL_1A9
is pre-defined in doorsos.h
using the SDK u would put (at the top of ur prog):
DrawStrXY equ _ROM_CALL_1A9
then it'll work the same
Ryan.

Please, don't be so naive. Symbols like _ROM_CALL_nnn are symbols which are internally recognized only in Doors-like linkers, and they themselves have not any sense in TIOS. So, don't expect that SDK linker will understand them. _ROM_CALL_nnn has not any meaning with SDK. Forget completely about possibility of making Doors based programs with SDK.

I am very sorry because I must not say anything more, but the SDK is COMPLETELY different tool than the imagination of 95% of ticalc users.

why because it is all c and not asm.

This is not a main reason. Sorry, but I have no permissions to say anything more.

I don't know why they call the integration of new protection schemes a "more open system".
In my opinion this is a really sarcastic statement.

Everything is relative. It's more open for them because it leaves a wider range of what they can put into their SDK (I think).

TI also promised the full SDK documentation for the 89/92+ LAST DECEMBER. Frankly, I'm not sure if the date in the SDK FAQ is meant for last October, or the coming one (well, the FAQ is less than two years old).

Seriously, though, there's still work to be done. Don't hold your breath, because if the SDK isn't ready come late October, it obviously won't be released then. Remember, TI doesn't profit off the SDK, and certainly has no reason to put up with selfish demands for immediate gratification from some game addicts (my apologies to the those few here who don't belong in the generalization).

Besides, the SDK isn't truly useful in the sense that most everyone here expects it to be. It's truly meant for "real" applications, and not games or most any of the various other programs found within the ticalc archives. However, it will be very useful for professional, commercial programs that people keep complaining about, suchs as ME*Pro.

The site says October 2000, so hopefull we will be seeing it next month. Given TI's track record, I say about... St. Patricks Day.

Of what year, thought?

2258... actually, I meant 2001 for the estimate.

What purpose does the software developers kit serve if you can't even put the software on you own calc.

You can't put your flash apps onto your own calculator without paying TI.

But, you can put regular ASM programs onto your calculator, and distribute them, for free.

And about the release date, it's hard to tell if this is going to happen. Remember TI had a very similar statement in the past that said the SDK would be released in "Early 2000". Later it said "Mid-June 2000". And then it said "Late September". And now they say "Late October." So, do we really have any confidence in them releasing it a month from now?
-Sean

You can't put _commercial_ flash apps on your calc without paying TI. Flash apps can be free, but it costs money to have the app signed as freeware/shareware, too, so it's pretty rare. You'll likely see a few free apps that are being developed in alpha/beta testing when the SDK is release, and probably a few freebie apps from those awarded with free signings for testing. However, it's not very likely that people will pay for the signings. . .

I'm not realy worried about that... There will allways be some mad frenchman that writes a hack that makes it possible to install unsigned flash apps, using a clever ROM patch... This is a real possibility (at least for the HW1), and in the absence of said frenchman, I might even resort to writing the patch my self, if I can find the time... (Heck, I might even try to get to do it as a custom project in the 'Hardware Programming' course I'll take later this fall...)

Actually, you don't have to pay TI to put these apps on your calc (depending on how you look at it). To purchase an SDK in which you can actually compile your program into a FlashApp, you also but x amount of signings (the Professional is 10, Educational is 3). Once you exceed this number of signings, you must purchase more. 1 signing = 1 FlashApp that you distribute (no matter how many people get this app). So, you can write 10 different Apps, and distribute them however you please, without buying new signings.

If you don't believe me, too bad. I have a friend who works at TI... nuff said!

If you buy the software you are paying so no matter how you look at it your paying. If you care to tell me on what logic you see it as not being charged for. I guess that maybe if you sold enough flash apps, like that is going happen, it would pay for itself.

The sdk is free and will provide a lot of information. The ability to make flash apps is not free.

In a program I am developing I want to place numbers into the history without exiting. This will hopefully be answered.

Unfortunately, it's insulting it's not free. TI is basically selling your space back to you, even though you own it. So unless I pay n$ to get my app signed, I can't put it in MY flash memory, and run it from there. Seriously I hope someone breaks the signature thing soon enough. People can proft off of it sure, but to charge people for using the space on one's own calc is just stupid.

I think we should all go together and follow in the footsteps of wormhole and break and find out everything about the 68k calcs we can as well as form our own SDK because if we know at least as much as TI or more than TI about their own calc we will have come a long way. I think we should have all done this a long time ago instead of whining about when TI will release their SDK in this what wormhole dedicated his life to!

Bob "Lenny" Lagagi puts in a futuristic 5.23343/32 sense into the well hoping his wish will come true

I think that the problem with running your own apps isn't that TI doesn't want you to be able to do it; it's that in order to do so you need both a key and a certificate that match your individual calculator's serial number, and I don't think that TI wants to - let alone has the ability to - go about creating customized certificates for every 89 and 92+ they've sold.

One does not need a custom certificate to run the free apps like finance and statistics so why would we all need a custom certificate to run our own programs?

If you want to call me a liar, go right ahead, but, seeing as I've had the SDK alpha for several months now, it would be a stupid thing to do.

You cannot simply make free apps. Any apps, including free ones, must be signed by TI.

If you have the proper keyfile, then you can create signed apps that will run only on a specific calculator with a specific certificate; however, these are only distributed to those who purchase the SDK.

If you make your own program and want to run it on your own calculator, then it must either have the proper certificate, key, and serial number, or be a free application. Either way, you must purchase the SDK.

I asked a simple question and nothing more. I am certainly not calling you a liar. Thankyou for answering my question.

If they have released the Alpha to testers then I think it is pretty clear that the Beta release is really close. I would be really interested in finding out if it is possible to join the alpha and/or beta testing teams. Give TI some credit. They do not need to supply SDK etc. after all they are primarily into chip manufacturing. Be glad that they are doing something that is going to be useful to us. I think that the SDK release will help standardize programs. Maybe even eliminate the need for shells. While this is bad news to shells, there is a certain amount of work that will be saved as programmers start to share library files and such that will fit with the SDK. Ie if the SDK becomes the standard we will see something like what happened with TIGCC occuring, namely the TI community will add the missing parts.

My $0.02

I am really sorry because I can not say anything concrete, but it is really miracle how TI community is misleaded about how SDK looks like, and what is purpose of it. I can only say: its purpose is for making applications like EEPro, MEPro, Geometry Sketchpad, etc. Forget completely about making games with it!

Shells (and also kernels, which I think is probably what you really meant) aren't needed now. It is perfectly possible to make programs that need no kernels now, as it has been for a long time. Many programmers simply choose to use them even though they are unnecessary.

We all know that the 83+ SDK is released, right? Good!

In response to your comment, shells will not disappear. In fact, MirageOS - POTM sometime this year - IS A FLASH SHELL for the 83+. It has only expanded the capability and added to the options of the 83+. I do not believe the 89/92+ will be any different.

As for other comments I have seen....
The 83+ SDK cost $$. What is to say that the 89 SDK won't cost $$. Educational version of the 83+ SDK is $99! If the SDK doesn't cost anything, then why does 3 signings cost 99$?!? The professional version is $299. Why do we pay $3 less per signing? Is there a discount for buying in bulk? Puleeese!

As for TI's track record....
If they say tomorrow, they mean the day after. If they say next week, wait two. If they say next month, expect a late Christmas present. Faith is one of the things I do not hold with TI.

I would expect that many keep using TI-GCC just because it is free and because that is what most are used to. Unless TI makes some very major changes in what the are doing, I do not believe they will have the bulk of programmers supporting them for the long haul.

ericman2000's 2 cents and then some.

does anybody know where I can get a free version of Geometry Sketchpad for the TI-89?