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Feature: A Modest Proposal
Posted by Nick on 5 May 2000, 01:24 GMT

Our next somewhat late (*g*) feature is written by Ben Kalafut. It talks about what TI should include in their next calculator (or calculator update :P). In my opinion, he makes some good points and some I don't quite agree with (or they aren't vital to the functionality of said calculator), but it's still worth a read and some frank discussion of opinions.

So let's do just that. Many (many) people have complained about TI's "actions," especially since after Hardware 2.00 and AMS v2.03 came out for the 68K calculators. Talk amongst yourselves - as usual, I'll try to offer any input I can.


I have owned three different TI calculators, and I have run into frustrating "brick walls" in the use and programming of each one.
I use my calculator for math and sciences; I have no real interest in gaming or getting my calculator to make sound or bit-mapped graphics. Yet sometimes, the calculators are just as useful as a Gameboy.
Even the "powerful" TI-89 and 92 don't contain what I would like to see in a graphics calculator/computer algebra system. Symbolic manipulation is a nice feature, certainly, but programming all but the most elementary routines becomes time-consuming or impossible. Texas Instruments should probably put out programs to perform Fourier, Laplace, and Z transforms, partial fraction decomposition, tensor mathematics, functional analysis, etc, but they do not do so, and apparently, no third parties are interested.
The problem, in my opinion, is that Texas Instruments considers the graphics calculator to be merely an educational tool. This is evident in the software applications which are written, and the nature of their press releases and advertisements. TI does not seem to recognize the (potential) utility of their calculators to researchers, college students, mathematicians, and professionals.
Some improvements which I would like to see on a hypothetical calculator which TI would put out to replace the 89 are:

1) True updates. I expected a boost in functionality between AMS 1 and 2.03, and all that seemed to occur was an improvement in memory allocation. Extending the function library from time to time would be nice.
2) A faster processor. The 68000 can certainly handle numerics well, but seems to bog down on all but the simplest symbolic operations.
3) Ability to define a function with multiple outputs. For example, a Gaussian elimination decomposition should return both the reduced matrix and the "O" matrix by which one may multiply the original to change it to the reduced form.
4) A true 3-D engine. It is nice to be able to enter functions of two variables, but one should be able to view three-dimensional plots obtained from numerical methods of problem solving, view three-dimensional data plots, or plot space curves parametrically.
5) Vector field plots, Poincar‚ return maps, improved slope and direction field applications.
6) LaPlace and inverse LaPlace transforms.
7) Partial fraction decomposition.
8) Improved ability to program new symbolic functions. The "part" function is a step in the correct direction but is neither sophisticated nor specific enough to be truly useful.
9) Ability to handle tensors.
10) Ability to enter strings, matrices, lists, etc as elements of lists or cell arrays
11) Ability to overload user-defined functions, so that they may return either symbolic or numeric answers, for example. Also, the ability to input fewer than the specified number of parameters to a function and not get errors.

These are just a few suggestions. I'm sure that those who are more advanced in mathematics than I have many more. I don't expect TI to come out with a calculator that does everything that Maple or Mathematica do, but by focusing too much on secondary education it is neglecting a potential market.
TI or a third party should also put out a compiled language for the calculators. I'm impressed with TI-GCC, but TI, having a team of professional programmers, could probably develop the standard libraries and even more powerful interaction with the calculator's built-in features. TI also has the muLisp language, and could possibly release a version for graphics calculators.
Another thing that has struck me is the poor quality of programs in the math and science archives.
A lot of the programs do things that the calculators already do! Additionally, many have poor documentation and terse interfaces. User-friendliness is not a major concern. Neither is standardization or development of syntaxes which make sense to anybody but the user. For the sake of consistency I have been writing my programs so that they either state, clearly, what should be input (rather than specifying a variable name), or in the case of those for the 89 which take inputs from the command line, do so in an order and syntax which follows that of TI's built- in libraries.
The graphics calculator has great potential as a mathematical tool in the classroom, the lab, and even in the professional world, but it will never realize that potential until Texas Instruments chooses not to focus strictly on the secondary education market and programmers (perhaps at the expense of gaming) develop better, more powerful, more consistent mathematics and science software.

 


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Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
John Doe  Account Info

These are good proposals. It is true that TI's calculators focus on high school math mostly; it could use some more advanced functions. The 68K processor should have the capabilities to do these functions.

BTW: Let's see who is intelligent. Solve this problem. It took me a week...

Mr. Vicar said to Mr. Verger, "How old are your three children?" Mr. Verger replied, "If you add their ages you would get the number on my door. If you multiply their ages together you get 36." Mr. Vicar went away for awhile but then came back and said he couldn't solve the problem. Mr. Verger said, "Your son is older than any of my children." Then Mr. Vicar told Mr. Verger the ages of Mr. Verger's children. What is the age of the oldest of Mr. Verger's children?

A) 18 years
B) 12 years
C) 9 years
D) 6 years
E) 4 years


(Yes, this problem is solvable, so don't give up!)

     6 May 2000, 02:51 GMT

Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
omotai  Account Info
(Web Page)

I can suggest a couple of things that would make TI's game friendly. First, a minimum of 200k Mem, split into two blocks, one archive/apps and one RAM. Also, I think you really don't need more than a 20mhz chip, and I am satisfied with the Z80 and M68000(here's a comparison for you: the 1970's SmartCard from Microsoft ran the Z80 and the Apple II ran a MC68000. I think if you are going to make a color display on the Ti you should make it an option by triggering a system flag, the reasons are two fold. If you have an always color calc teachers are going to consider it a game boy. If you have it set up for optional, some programmers prefer black/white only for faster games. Also, add some decent sound (sys flag only) and make it run on AA's (they are the battery standard). By the way I don't suffer fools well, so don't argue semantics with me, 'kay?

     6 May 2000, 04:06 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Reno  Account Info

while we're at it, lets put an internal dvd-ram drive in it; 1024x768 res would do nicely also...

The fact is, that contradicts all of what would be the most logical step of any company like TI: "If it ain't broken, don't fix it."

TI is well beyond the "minimum 200k" ram/archive (TI89/92wp/92+). A 20mhz chip is unnecessary; just code better and you won't need the chip going at that speed. Again, I bring up the point of the HP's 4mhz Saturn chip (don't you people read the other messages!? :P). The 49g graphs faster than the 89 in REAL 3d. Why? Because HP has been programming calculators with that chip for a lot of years (14 I think). They can code better for the saturn than TI can for the motorola. BTW, how many mhz would be safe until the thing would need a fan?

Color isn't needed; I don't want to pay more for something that won't help me solve a function. Also, Casios have color, and all teachers know THEY aren't gameboys...

Sound isn't really a necesity; the HP's have them, and, as far as I can tell, they only beep when you do something wrong (I only used the 49g twice at a staples). Plus, it'd be easier for a teacher to hear a game than see one; sound might be nice for some things, but it just adds to a calculators price.

     6 May 2000, 05:20 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
David Phillips  Account Info
(Web Page)

Microsoft's 1970's SmartCard? You sure you aren't thinking of the Radio Shack TRS-80 that used a Z80? And the Apple II did most certainly NOT have a Motorola 68000. It had a 6502. The first Apple Macs used the 68000 line of cpu's.

     6 May 2000, 06:58 GMT

Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Free_Bird Account Info
(Web Page)

C

     6 May 2000, 10:35 GMT

Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Free_Bird Account Info
(Web Page)

On second thought, B.

     6 May 2000, 10:36 GMT

Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Free_Bird Account Info
(Web Page)

I mean D!

     6 May 2000, 10:36 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Blue_Z  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes, I would say D !
The door number would be 13...

     6 May 2000, 12:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Free_Bird Account Info
(Web Page)

No 11:
6,3,2

     9 May 2000, 21:26 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Reno  Account Info

No, 13:
1*6*6

if he knew the door number was 11 he wouldn't have had any problems telling the ages; there's only one way to get a sum of 11 and a product of 36. Since there were two possibilities to get a sum of 13 and product of 36, however, he couldn't tell the ages right away until he asked for another hint.

     12 May 2000, 19:55 GMT

Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
vod

best i can figure the oldest would be 18, assuming that non of the kids are the same age (i think that would'nt work), the other man's child isnt the age thats listed and your only dealing with years (not months)

(1*2*18)=36

     7 May 2000, 01:03 GMT


Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Daniel Bishop  Account Info

The answer is D.

Since Mr. Vicar couldn't figure out the ages at first, the number on the door must be 13. There are two different possibilities.

9-year old and 2-year-old twins
sum=9+2+2=13 product=9*2*2=36

1-year old and 6-year-old twins
sum=1+6+6=13 product=1*6*6=36

Since Mr. Verger's children are younger than any of Mr.
Vicar's children, and this is enough information to solve the problem, Mr. Vicar's son must be less than nine years old, so Mr. Verger's children must be 6,6, and 1 years old.

Assuming, of course, that the ages are integers. There are probably other solutions if the possibility of fractional ages is considered.

     7 May 2000, 02:21 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
John Doe  Account Info

Exactly! That's the answer and the exact way to solve it!

     7 May 2000, 03:43 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
vod

how does Mr. Vicar not being able to figure it out at first make the number on the door 13?

     8 May 2000, 19:22 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Jason Schoenfelder  Account Info

There are many possible numbers for the sum of the ages:

1+1+36=38
1+2+18=21
1+3+12=16
1+4+9=14
1+6+6=13
2+2+9=13
2+3+6=11
3+3+4=10

Mr. Vicar knows the door number. If the door number was anything other than 13, Mr. Vicar would be able to figure out the ages of the children from the first two clues. (We're assuming he knows enough math.) Since he is unable to solve the problem, we must conclude that the number on the door, and hence the sum of the ages of the children, is 13.

     10 May 2000, 11:17 GMT

Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
notcarlos Account Info

Y'know, this is some valid stuff. This, truely, is a tool, but it should be a better one - it seems to me that recent "upgrades" were mainly for the game-writers out there and not for those who actually use their calc's as tools. At the very least one would hope for a better "tixx/asm/math" section that adds to what is available on the calcluator - and _not_ one that just duplicates features found on the higher-level machines.

     6 May 2000, 04:16 GMT

Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Eric Greening  Account Info
(Web Page)

Well, first off, I would like to say that I'm severely disappointed with the TI line of calculators. I have been a TI user for about 2 years now and a programmer of one for one year. I find myself slowly drifting away from the "TI community." I still program for the TI-89 and occasionally the 86 but, it just doesn't hold the fun and enjoyment it used to. I would get home encouraged to program but, it isn’t the same now. It's all now just complaints about the Hardware versions or AMS versions or what ever. I tire of constant complaints and whining. If you want compatible ROM versions, mathematically advanced, all-around great calculator, then get a HP-49G. It has an equation editor so you can input the problem like it is in the text book. Fast 3D graphing, vast support for third party Assembler development. A total of 1.5 MB of memory, three different ways to program for the calculator (RPN, HP-BASIC, and Assembler). 2300 built-in-functions, an XROOT() command. Reverse Polish Lisp (need I say more?). I find myself using my HP-49G more and more for math/games/anything. Mathematically, it’s the most advanced calculator. Game wise, it’s not as exceptional. Due to the slowness of the processor, it’s games aren’t as fast. While 4-level grayscale is still possible, it isn’t as good as the TI-89/92+’s. Well, like video games, the poorer the graphics, the better the game play. NES games are far superior to n64 games. It’s got some good games here and on there way. I hope this inspires some people to either
1). Stop complaining
2). Buy a HP-49G
Both will stop the complaining, the second will make people’s life happier. :-)

Glenn Murphy (a.k.a. Eric Greening)

     6 May 2000, 05:58 GMT

Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
MathJMendl
(Web Page)

I have no problems with the rest of your statement but the NES being better than the N64? I'd have to dispute that. Some NES games were fun but even ignoring the better graphics, the N64 games I find to be more fun and to have greater longetivity. Ever played Mario Kart 64? It rules!

     6 May 2000, 09:48 GMT

Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Eric Greening  Account Info

Okay, Mario Kart 64 was good but you can only play it so many times before it becomes boring. I can still sit down with my good ol' NES and play any of my games and still don't tire of any of them. But, of course, I am a little partial to the NES. I grew up with that machine. I can still remember the first time I beat Bowser on Super Mario Brothers 3. :-) I just regret that I have such a small library of games for it.

Let's compare the two consoles. The NES had long levels. Zelda 1, for example, has a long "story." But, look at Glover 64. Two levels and then the boss, and you've beaten the game. The longest one, I’ve seen is Zelda 64 but that took me about a week to beat.

I still say, NES is and always will be the best console (second to the Sega Genesis).

Glenn Murphy (a.k.a. Eric Greening

     6 May 2000, 17:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
vod

NES second to sega? i dont think so, espically since NES's games owned sega's and it was only 8bit compaired the sega's shit 16bit, all the games for it sucked

     9 May 2000, 03:52 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Eric Greening  Account Info

My bad, I meant to say ..(second is Sega Genises). I'm sorry. Yeah, a lot of the games did. But, sonic was good. :-)

Ah, the 6502. I just finished writing a paper about that. (well, actually over all of Nintendo's consoles in general but, I spent over half of it on the 6502). I haven't done any work with the 6502 but, I can read and understand it's code. Maybe one day when I get completely upset with programming, I'll program for it. :-)

Glenn Murphy

     10 May 2000, 04:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Bennett Kalafut  Account Info

This is just about off-topic, but the old Atari stuff (the head to head games--Combat, Video Olympics, Outlaw...) has the most play value considering that it came out five years before I did and I'm still playing it.

Lesson for all: Keep it simple, stupid!

     7 May 2000, 02:29 GMT


Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Rgb9000  Account Info

Did'nt you know when you posted this you would be flamed? HPs are better than tis, nes beats n64, man, where have you been? Now, TI's have a little work to be done on them, but after they work out the kinks, think how great they will be.

PS I wonder if TI will make HW 3 for ti-89/92+??
Thoughts??

     12 May 2000, 00:28 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Feature: A Modest Proposal
Eric Greening  Account Info

That was the point. Well, part of it anyways. HPs are better than TIs. And the NES is better than the n64. I can't help it if that's the way life is... Whether or not TI makes another HW, who know. Doubt it but, it is likely.

P.S. I would love to get my hands on a couple of Nintendo Game & Watchs. :-)

     13 May 2000, 20:30 GMT

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