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PC POTY Voting Opens
Posted by Michael on 27 December 2006, 19:52 GMT

The last category of our 2006 POTY voting, PC programs, is now open. Vote now from the wide selection of contenders!

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The comments below are written by ticalc.org visitors. Their views are not necessarily those of ticalc.org, and ticalc.org takes no responsibility for their content.


Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

Hmmms. That's hard decision.
KTIGCC is useless for me (and for >90% people using MS Windows too). I wasn't able to run TiLP2 because of stupid GTK libraries - although I tried to fix it more than 3 hours...
I would vote for TI Program Editor for V200 as most innovative PC soft this year (it wasn't made by community and its syntax checker is not perfect, but it works). This application can help to create simple BASIC functions quickly and easily (btw. was it reviewed on ticalc.org?!). This is what dead TI-Edit project should do :-(.
To Kevin K.: Hmmms, 2 years old version of WordRider has more downloads weekly than KTIGCC... :-) (and I would be able to find more such apps) I hope that we will fight each other next year :-), although I can't say that I understand the way of choosing apps for POTY.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 01:47 GMT

Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

Uh, do we even know the TI Program Editor _exists_? I know it was included in a beta version of TI Connect, but I have never heard of it since. Is there a separate download for it now? Or do they sell (yuck!) it?

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 07:20 GMT

Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

Check this out:
http://tinyurl.com/yxbh25

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 12:34 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

So at least it's free of charge (but of course proprietary and Window$-only, as usual for TI).

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 18:47 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

I am sad too that they didn't use a potential of Java application and it's dependent on TI Connect (it internally calls .exe). But it's on the good way. Better than problems with .NET.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:54 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
patz2009  Account Info
(Web Page)

I got the TI Program Editor when I bought my TI-84 Plus. It came on the included software CD. I use it all the time because (as we all know) programming on a computer editor is WWAAAYYY easier than using the on-calc editor. Besides, when you send your programs over, you sometimes get a size optomization. Example: Say you had the program output "English" for some reason. This takes 13 bytes of space (1 capital*1 byte+6 lower*2 bytes). However, the Program Editor sends it as the token (Eng)lish, therefore optomizing your size by 4 bytes. Useful, no? :-)

Reply to this comment    6 January 2007, 21:37 GMT

Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

Oh, and nobody forces you to vote if you don't like or use the programs, what good is insulting them in the comments for?

And it's still planned that the KDE 4 port of KTIGCC is going to replace TIGCC IDE on Window$ too.

As for the TI Program Editor, it doesn't qualify for the ticalc.org POTY because it's not at ticalc.org. :-/

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 07:23 GMT

Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
JfG  Account Info
(Web Page)

"Oh, and nobody forces you to vote if you don't like or use the programs, what good is insulting them in the comments for?"

Yes Kevin, why did you keep bashing F-zero in the comments ?

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 10:53 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

I just described my opinion and my experience with those applications to survey "Favorite PC Program for 2006?".
TiLP is not bad application at all. The problem is with a distribution. I would distribute it with integrated GTK libraries because a lot of people have problems with launching, include me (and I don't feel to be a computer dummy). Same with TI-Emu - therefore I still use VTI, because it simply WORKS.
Btw. the next version of WordRider supports TiLP.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 12:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Tyler C  Account Info
(Web Page)

Wow, I never knew it was too hard to download and install the GladeWin32 Runtime from the URL above.

Even at that, if the GTK Runtime was included in TiLP-II directly, then the GTK Runtime Source would have to be distributed on the same mirrors as the runtime binaries, and TiCalc.org wouldn't go for that.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 17:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

It's not hard to download and install GTK libraries, but to run an application, which is addicted on it.
2 samples:
http://tinyurl.com/y5nuub and http://tinyurl.com/smy5c
That's why I suggest to distribute tested and proved version of GTK with application which was used by author.
I tried to install GTK libraries from http://gladewin32.sf.net/, include older versions (on Windows). None of them works - neither with TI-Emu nor TiLP2 and the point is that I am not alone with such problems.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 18:17 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

In both examples, the user installed versions of GTK+ which we don't support. The first one was obviously a bad GTK+ installer, a working one (like the gladewin32 one) correctly registers the DLLs in the DLL search path. The second one was either a bad installer or a bad version (you need GTK+ 2.6.10 or higher for current versions of TiLP and TiEmu) or (most likely) a version conflict (see the next paragraph). Just use the gladewin32 installer, it's the most complete one, and it will also work with other GTK+-using programs.

Bundling GTK+ with each app is a very bad idea. The reason is that it leads to DLL hell. You CANNOT have more than one version of GTK+ installed at a time! If you do that anyway, Window$ loads an arbitrary version of each DLL due to its global DLL caching (which only looks at the DLL's file name, not the full path or the contents), and then you'll end up with a mix of old and new DLLs (the most frequent case is old versions where both old and new ones exist and new versions for the DLLs which are new in the new version of GTK+), and that leads to the unresolved symbol references. So you must have ONE AND EXACTLY ONE version of GTK+ installed on the system! If that's not the case, then you must track them all down and remove them (but you must search the file system for the offending DLLs, not just "Add/Remove Programs"), or reinstall Window$. Whenever someone had a problem like the ones you cited and reinstalled Window$ and the gladewin32 GTK+, the problem went away.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 18:56 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

OK.
I'll try it again as soon as I reinstall my OS (very far future).

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:38 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Lewk Of Serthic  Account Info

You know you have problems if you need to reinstall your OS to fix a failed install...

Reply to this comment    5 January 2007, 20:26 GMT

Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

PS: It's obvious why WordRider has more downloads than KTIGCC: there are a lot more cheaters than programmers. :-/ Sad, but true.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 07:40 GMT

Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

I wouldn't generalize people like you. I saw many practical documents made in WordRider.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 12:35 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

Do you call a cheat sheet a "practical document"?

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:00 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Ranman  Account Info
(Web Page)

Do guns kill people or do people kill people? Don't blame the project for what the users do with it -- it is not author's fault.

I think WordRider is pretty nifty utility and very professionally looking I might add. I wonder why it was never "officially" featured. A front page news article was posted on Ticalc a while back (see link).

Reply to this comment    30 December 2006, 01:47 GMT

Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Peter Fernandes  Account Info
(Web Page)

Yes, perhaps that is somewhat of a broad generalization. :) Anyway, there's always going to be more end users than programmers, and Word Rider is a practical utility.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 15:40 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Ranman  Account Info
(Web Page)

Are you saying that by downloading ang using a program, some people are cheating? Or, are you saying that some people are intentionally (and artificially) raising the download statistics via multiple downloads?

Stretching the first idea a little but... Since downloading is just a method of obtaining a program, does that mean that by using a program, it makes someone a cheater? How was KTIGCC created again?

;)

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 16:50 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

No, I'm saying that 99%+ of users of WordRider use it to prepare cheat sheets for tests/quizzes or exams.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 18:58 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Ranman  Account Info
(Web Page)

Aaaahhhhh...

Surely no one would use a calc for a cheat sheet. That would be shameful!

Your first post was a little vague. But, I guess if I used my calc to cheat, I would have known exactly what you were talking about.

:D

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:45 GMT


Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Tyler C  Account Info
(Web Page)

Just because it has more downloads doesn't mean it is used more often. For instance, for every 100 downloads of WordRider, say, maybe only 10 people use it, as for KTIGCC, say for every 100 downloads, 90 people may use it. These numbers are just guesses out of my head (and most likely wrong), but download numbers mean jack.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 17:45 GMT

Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Kevin Kofler Account Info
(Web Page)

Yeah right, I guess most people throw away WordRider when they realize it uses Java. :-D

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:02 GMT


Re: Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

My users don't need to realize it. They can read it: First sentence on the WordRider homepage:
"Welcome to the website dedicated to Java text editor...".
Btw. no one cares of it, except you...
I don't want to start Java vs C/GTK flame here.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:44 GMT


Re: Re: Re: PC POTY Voting Opens
Vity  Account Info
(Web Page)

This is your opinion. I can say it otherwise.

Reply to this comment    29 December 2006, 19:50 GMT

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