The 89 and the hp are calculators that are designed for completely different purposes. 89's were designed for students and gaming. For as long as i can remember HP has been making decent calcs for buisness men and people like that. i.e. non students. That is all i have to say so ill shut up.

He forgot one thing in the document. The TI-89 OS was written in C and the HP was written in ASM. Amazingly the 89 OS is faster. (Except when rotating those kickass 3D graphs ) That is where the HP-49 shines but then again it might be because of the smaller screen.

Ethereal-Chess rating 1850

hey, Ethereal, this is comepletely off topic, but where do you play chess at? Oh, and I'd have to go with the 89 as the best. Mainly because of availability, the price, and oh. the indorsements by millions of professors at the local universities. That and it just looks cooler, and has those nifty color cases = )

I live in Minnesota so thats where I've been playing. My rating comes from my friend who is slightly better than I. About the translucent slide cases were the only reason I made my second graphing calc a 89

Ethereal

The main reason why the TI-89 is generally faster (most notably in navigation) than the HP49G is because the 89 has a BIG CPU advantage:

1) 16-bit Motorola (vs. 4-bit NEC Saturn)
2) 10MHz clock speed (vs. 4MHz)

Owning both of these calculators, these are observations I've made. Yes, it would have been nice if the 49G was released with a new CPU (they've had 10 years, heh) but oh well. The 49G still suits my needs very well. It's a far better engineering calculator (IMHO) than my TI-89. Soon, I hope to write a review comparing similar tasks between the 89 and 49G and which is the fastest calculator overall. But I think the 89 already wins in raw speed, although that isn't the only thing that makes a good calculator.

- Nick

> 2) 10MHz clock speed (vs. 4MHz)

And don't forget that the HP actually is only 2 MHz over-clocked chip.

> Yes, it would have been nice if the 49G was released
> with a new CPU (they've had 10 years, heh) but oh
> well.

Using a different CPU would mean throwing away 10 years of code. The HP 49G CAS is based on HP 48G programs made by enthusiats who were hired by HP to help with the design and implementation of the design of a new calculator.

The developers of the HP-OS are making VAST changes to make the OS faster. The OS is actually faster than TI's, but if you compare a Pentium II 550 MHz w/ 256 MB of RAM to a 80286 12 MHz w/ 1 MB RAM, the program for the Pentium II is going to run faster even if it's badly programmed just because it has better resources. The HP 49G might soon surpass the TI-89 in speed by virtue of the fact that TI programmers are inefficient, while HP's programmers are using every speed trick around. They are supposed to have a new OS version out soon which will eliminate all the things I know right now that the TI-89 is faster in doing.

Can't agree with "BIG cpu advantage". Sure, the TI runs at 10Mhz, and the poor Saturn at
"only" 4Mhz. But did you forgot that, for example, an Ibm PowerPC at 300Mhz runs many
lightspeeds faster than an Intel PIII/600Mhz ? The same stands for the TI89/92 (powered by
a 68000, CISC-based architecture) against the HP48/49 (a RISC one). So don't blame HP
only for some Mhz: try it. You'll see that it is generally faster (and it is not because the OS is
highly optimized, because it is far from being so !).
Oh, and for those who think the Saturn processor is a 4-bit processor, I must say they're wrong.
It is a full-sized 64bit processor with an EXTERNAL DATA BUS which is 4bit wide. Sorry folks !

Wow, the HP 49 web site actually says that the 1.5 MB of memory "lets you benefit from the biggest and most comprehensive library of third party calculator programs, GAMES, and software applications."

First of all, does the HP 49G really have the biggest library of games? Remember that you can also run HP 48 programs on this calc.

And second of all, that's pretty surprising that HP comes right out and says that there calculator can and is used for playing games. Sure TI knows it, but they don't say it so bluntly. I'm not complaining; I like seeing HP be honest like that, but I just wonder if some parent getting a calc for their kid would see that and decide to _not_ get it for just that reason (so then that parent gets their kid an 89 instead and he is later enjoying Super Mario Quest, Phoenix, and Street Fighter II :-).

TI themselves do support games, it sells calculators.
To quote TI themselves:

Free Downloads:
Download calculator software upgrades and applications! Electronically upgradable calculators include the TI-73, TI-83 Plus, TI-89, and TI-92 Plus. You can also discover cool programs you can run on just about any TI graphing calculator. Yes, you can find games here, too.

From the TI82/83 manual

getKey can be used inside loops, for example, to create video games.

And try this URL: (not as good as TICALC's archive)

ftp://ftp.ti.com/pub/graph-ti/ calc-apps/83/games/
(remove spaces to actually visit)

And this last thing:

Newsgroup:
If the regular discussion groups aren't enough, sign up for our FREE e-mail listserve to really hear what others have to say. (hint: Sign up for Calc-TI)

Texas Instruments does not support user-created programs or games. Especially games.

Lots of people, having trouble with games will email help@ticalc.org. They get a form letter stating to email the program author, or if they need help with a calculator function, to email TI.

They then turn around and ask TI the question. Why on earth they don't think to email the author is quite beyond. me.

"They then turn around and ask TI the question. Why on earth they don't think to email the author is quite beyond. me." -- Nathan Haines

Nathan,

I am not clear on what that sentence(s) is/are about. I think "they" is ambigious... does it refer to the customer of TI? Are you saying TI should e-mail the program author for a response? If so, I suppose they could, if they knew who the program's author was. On the other hand, I don't think TI should get mired in that kind of issue, as it would only drive up the cost of support.

Oh well,
Tip DS

Nathan is referring to the person who emailed help@ticalc.org. He tells them to email the author, or if the problem is with a calculator function, then to email TI. Then the email TI with the same question about the game.
Poor, poor confused users :)

--
Phil

Eschew obfuscation, Philbert.

--BlueCalx

There is a HP-49 emulator on the HP homepage if anyone is interested in finding out how good the HP-49 is. Although it's a bit slow on my Celeron 466 system.

Yes. You can reach the page by clicking on my web page link above.

do they let you use their emulator without purchasing a calc...? thats interesting speaking of emulators why cant i get my 86 emulator to work i keep having trouble when i try using-whatisit?- the thing that supposed to get the rom from the calc.. i have succeeded with my 89 but with the 86 im still having trouble im using a dif prog than i did with the 86 that i did with the 89. the emulator (vti) came with its own romfetch prog. I am trying to use romdump2 but i cant get rompdump.exe to work rite any sugestions?

Yes. You don't have to own it. It is a (very smart) strategy to let you try before you buy.

hi i went there and got the emulator can anybody find the fith question on that competition thing...? I answered 4/4 on the first part but i cant even find the q that has to do with winning a computer... haha i guess they just dont wanna give away a free computer...

> I answered 4/4 on the first part but i cant even
> find the q that has to do with winning a computer

In the directory where you unzipped the emulator into, there is a .url file which will take you to the fifth question. Just double click it.

HP actually enters all of the people who answer Question 5 correctly into a drawing to win a new HP digital camera. Don't you think it would be a little too generous to get a computer for answering a very easy question?

Here's an interesting observation I've made:

The current HP49G emulator includes the 1.10 ROM. The CAS on this ROM revision derives the answer in 4 steps (which should be the correct answer, according the majority of participants). When I did the same thing with an ACTUAL HP49G (1.05 ROM), it did it in 3 steps. Looks as if they made a few modifications to the CAS in the next ROM revision....anyway, I will try this again once I'm able to update my ROM, as I can't find anyone who actually has a 38G/48G cable with a 10-pin adapter in stock.

the reason the 89 doesnt have a log key is because its meant for calculus and higher classes.....and if you've ever taken calc..youd know that you use logs once or twice the entire time....thats why log was put in the math menu....and natural log was put on the keyboard...besides that, its a pretty good comparison

definitely agree. the shortcut derivative and integral came in very usefull for me from calc II to diff eq. what would really be nice though is to modify the default menu selections, instead of the "custom" button. maybe it's in ams 2.00.

btw, does anyone know when 2.00 is comming out?

> btw, does anyone know when 2.00 is comming out?

It was supposed to come out September 10, 1999 (info from a source close to TI), but was delayed most likely due to TI's acquisition of SoftWarehouse. It has been rescheduled for about a month from the previous release date, but this information is subject to change. (again from a source close to TI -- it's not me, and I don't know, so please don't email me about it).

will 2.00 give us the same trouble that the new roms did if theres a chance that it might i think that i might wait for the feed back here before i run over and get it --does anyone know how hard itll be to get rid of this?

I'm (mostly) sure that ROM v2.0 will kill compatability with asm games, as the memory will have been restructured and the ROM calls themselves are likely to have changed. Generally, when the internal structure of something changes, things break :)

--
Phil

and we wont be able to overwrite or will we? can i just upload my present rom and later overwrite the new one if i really hate it or will it tell me that its an older version....

The calculator doesn't even know what version of the ROM you are installing. It doesn't care. You can install any version of the ROM any time.

Not to mention that the only things you use in calculus are natural logs. If you really want to use the base 10 log and don't want to wade through menus, ln(x)/ln(10) will do the trick, replace x with the expression that you want.

> ln(x)/ln(10) will do the trick, replace x with the
> expression that you want.

Even better: ln(num)/ln(base) for anybase logs.

Here's a quick tip:

type in Define LogBase(base, num)=ln(num)/ln(base)

or use whatever name you want in place of LogBase and now you have a logarithm for any base function. Just type in LogBase(10,100) or LogBase(2,16) to use, or whatever.

Just an idea, in case you didn't know you could do that.

Nick Chaves

> the reason the 89 doesnt have a log key is because
> its meant for calculus and higher classes

The reason this was added is because it is a high-volume question on the TI-89/92+ discussion group, probably right next to 'How do I do cube (nth) roots on the TI-89?' People always ask 'how do I do logs other than base e? Or, 'where is the log key?'. Due to this infamous question, I added this to the comparison as it was originally published on the TI discussion groups.

> and if you've ever taken calc

I have taken calc.

> youd know that you use logs once or twice the entire
> time....thats why log was put in the math menu

I would add that there aren't sufficient keys to give every function its own button along with the fact that natural log is the most common logarithm.

The 89 is good only if you're past Geometry. I received my 89 a month into my precalc class and it was quite a boon to my grade :). If you get an 89 in algebra 1, for example, you'll lack comprehension of basic algebra for you only do stupid crap like factor(x^2+5x+6) or solve(x^2-1=0,x) on your calculator, thus defeating the purpose of actually knowing any algebra. Anyone considering getting an 89 when they're a freshman should rethink it. Use an 86 until you go into precalc.
Just my $50/250.

--BlueCalx

"Just my $50/250" -- BlueCalx

I really like that salutation... can I use it sometimes?

Copied this one too,
Tip DS

Actually it's $50/2,500 ... $50/250 is twenty cents. Yeah, and I got a 790 math too :)

--BlueCalx

haha here i am trying to figure out what 20 cents is... wouldnt $5/250 be easier to type than $50/2500.. oh well i still like the expression..

Shhhhhhh....

--BlueCalx

it doesnt matter how quietly i type they still "hear" me haha oh well i was just wonderin and what sign off did he steal? tip ds? what is that supposed to mean?

Yo, punk! You talkin' to me!? <JK> I was just asking if I could use the salutation "Just my $50/2500" on my posts from time to time. Since I was asking to bootleg his salutation, I thought I'd use one to reference my bad habbit of stealing them. It was just something else stupid for me to say. (I say stupid things alot, you know.)

Hasta luego,
Tip DS

Too bad my 89 is banned in my (*&&$% pre-cal class.
*sob*

my teacher saw my 89 on the first day i was there and asked if it was an 86, and i said no it was an 89, and she said, "what the hell? they have an 89 now? is that like one of those 92's?" and i told her not really...i mean you never know ]:-)

anyways, the moral of the story is: the less your math teachers knows, the better. for all i know, it could be banned at my school too. i think guns are banned at my school, although i'm not completely sure on that one...

My math teacher is totally for the 89... but if you don't show your work, he cuts your head off and plants it on a stake outside room A-113 as a warning to others.
However, what's important is that he likes it when you use the 89 :)

--BlueCalx

my Algebra II teacher used to be like that
until some idiot showed him exactly
HOW MUCH the 89 could do.
Now i lease the almighty 83+ for ten bucks the year,
so i can take tests, and the 89 is restricted to my homework assignments
*flood of tears with intermingled sobbing*

The 83+ is about as almighty as the crud currently being scraped from under my right thumbnail.
Oh yeah, and make sure you severely hurt the kid who showed your teacher the 89's power on my behalf :)

--BlueCalx

> my Algebra II teacher used to be like that until
> some idiot showed him exactly HOW MUCH the 89 could
> do.

Apparently the idiot wasn't smart enough to show the teachers why this is NOT a bad thing. I made it a point to share all my knowledge over calculators with my teachers, and how it helps me learn things that I never would've known otherwise. All my teachers knew how powerful my TI-92 and my TI-89 was, and they still let me use them. Maybe you should make it a point to instill the virtues of the TI-89 for your teacher. Then again, I don't think an Algebra teacher isn't going to let you regardless.

Interesting side note: VERY VERY few people finished my Algebra II final because it was too much work to complete for most people. If not for my trusty TI-92, I wouldn't have finished it either. I was among the 10% of the class that finished the final since it autosimplified things for me.

I'm going to break to my math teacher tomorrow (at the next math team meet) that I work on ticalc.org. After he soils himself, I'll politely say that he shall pry my 89 from my cold, dead, limp, leprous, bloody, battered, pasty white fingers.

Gosh, ain't I a stinker? :)

--BlueCalx

hahaha

hmm.. scare him, but don't make him cry. You don't want to take away_all_his dignity... Just enough to leave him a crumbled, trembling, nearly-empty shell of a man... :)

<if he's a her, replace <him> wherever appropriate> lol

Hmm... guess I should've looked at all the "he"s in your statement before I added that last line. Oh well, I isn't an English major. =)

And I showed the calculator to my students,
after the math examination.
Just for revenge to my former university
math teacher, who tortured me for many years.
(Now, I teach 80x86 assembly on the same faculty BTW)

However, the demonstration of TI89 had a slight fiasco
because he gave the ugliest integral I have ever
seen.

int(dx/(x^4+ 2*x^3 + 2*x^2 + 1))

I just bought a 89 this year, but I rented one for the school year last year because when the class started the teacher (calculus) told us about the TI-89 and said we should buy or rent one. He WANTED us to use it (though, not on his tests) because he wanted us to do well on the AP test and hey, the AP people allowed it. Alright that's enough of my babbling, I hope a couple people can understand me.

Nick C.

P.S. For those of you who care, he did want us to learn the concepts, too. :)

I got a TI-89 when I was a freshman (last year). Of course, I was in precalc then and I'm in AP Calc now.

>Use an 86 until you go into precalc.

I feel so left out, I used my TI-30 all the way thru geometry.

> I feel so left out, I used my TI-30 all the way thru
> geometry.

NOTHING wrong with that. I used my trusty TI-30a up through Geometry, but my Alg II professor had a class set of TI-83's where I learned that graphing calcs kick arsch.

about using inferior calcs... i had a classmate who was a senior in my alg2 class who refused to use a calculator at all. she was pretty fast at figuring things out with her scrawls. i once raced her to find a square root- cant rem what of but it wasnt :P- i worked my fingers to the bone and when time was called i was only one digit behind her but both of us were accurate to the place that we were working on. i have nothing against calcs, neither did she just prefered not to use them, i own a ti 86 and 89 but make sure that no matter what youre doing the calc is just speeding you up...