O.K. Here's the only way to maintain a closed system, that I've seen work with any success in the past:

New user logs on to the Website (BBS in the old days) and gets the message telling them they need to apply for admission via USPS. They need to mail a stamped, self addressed envelope to the site hosts. They should also include their login name. Using the return envelope's address, the host checks for "black-ball status". If that person has been blackballed, trash their application. If they are good, put the new user's temporary password in the return envelope and mail it. There could also be a small application fee to further encourage users to stick with a single account. (i.e. if you get blackballed each flame, it costs you $2 plus 2 envolopes and two stamps. Also the fuss of sending it all in, etc.) I know this method works VERY well, even if it is not completely automated. This is how we did it in the old days. Once the initial membership is on-line, only a (relative) trickle of applications come in.

I know what some of you will say... Do it, but with e-mail. Well, it's MUCH easier to get a new e-mail address than it is to get a new physical mailing address. In fact, a user can get a new e-mail address in a matter of minutes.

Comments welcome,
Tip DS

That's ridiculous. You're suggesting that someone mail an actual envelope to a US postal address? What if the applicant lives overseas? Few people would waste their time and money just for the simple privilege of posting at ticalc.org. It wouldn't be worth it. No one would bother. Although an e-mail application shows much more promise, it wouldn't be practical. Personally, I think the best answer lies with the automated username/e-mail system, as posted above. Ticalc could reduce the amount of smut by not accepting free e-mail addresses, like those from Hotmail or Yahoo.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm not saying that the general public should have to mail just for access to the board, just to post. People that want to DL programs won't need this type of check. Yes, it would keep a majority of folks off the board, but that's the point. If the majority of posts are flames and just general junk, then we need to get rid of them. This will ensure that only serious posters are on board. That would limit discussion to productive ones. Overseas users can still get it, albiet a bit more expensive. E-mail won't work. I consider myself a (more or less) productive member of the TI community, but I use "free email". For that matter, I use free internet access too! I'm not postulating here. I KNOW the mail method works. It is a PROVEN method. A paint in the anus, yes, but it works. Face it, there is no working "lazzy man's" way to administer a top quality message board. Filtering the board is more work than providing a closed group.

Like I said, the method I mentioned works. It has been proven over time at many different sites for years before even the internet existed. I have used it myself. Yes there are downfalls, but it provides exactly what everyone is talking about: A secure and serious, productive environment; free from flamers and petty annoyers.

With respect,
Tip DS

I apologize if the post above was too harsh. But if I remember correctly (which is doubtful) most BBS's only required a new user to send a message to the sysop with their phone number in order to gain access. The sysop would then call the new user back, verifying that they actually exist. The problem with this system (and the alternative snail mail method) is that the Internet is global, while local BBS's were, for the most part, limited to one area code. The difference between ticalc.org and a BBS is that the BBS was in itself a community, while ticalc.org is merely part of one, the larger TI community. If ticalc.org instituted the snail mail policy described above, its users would just flock to another, more user-friendly TI site.

Don't worry about it, I'm a big boy. <G> I don't know if I already mentioned it, but I wasn't talking exclusively about BBS's. That's just a reference to the origins of my plan. This is still in use on the internet. I know folks have gotten lazzy, but it really only takes about 5 minutes to do the whole thing, including the walk to the mailbox. I say, just do it for one or two message boards, not for the entire site. It would, at least, give the "serious members" a place to have intelligent conversations.

Respectfully,
Tip DS

Oh, yea... I forgot to mention something else. You say nobody would send in the envelope... Well, again from experience, people that want a serious forum will. I know of at least 3 sites that employed/employ this method of screening, and their (active) memberships were/are in millions. (i.e. 2+ million members [worldwide]) If ticalc doesn't want to restrict everyone, they can make a single messageboard that uses this type of screening method and allow general access to the rest. There are a million twists on this method. As for keeping up with the mail... Like I said before, it is a fairly sizeable startup task, but after the initial membership gets on-line there is only a trickle of additions. The verification process takes just a couple of minutes. (And that was in the days when the database was on a 286-12MHz system!!!)

TICALC wouldn't want to keep a mailbox...? Well, I'm pretty sure that every member of the team already has one. In fact, If I remember correctly, there are some members overseas too. If they wanted to, they could provide a "trustee" in several overseas locations who could process overseas accounts so that all applications wouldn't have to be sent directly to the "primary" site in the US. It really isn't that huge of a deal.

As I've said a couple of times now... This is a workable system. It has been proven to be successfull in the real world. I'm not guessing or postulating, I'm speaking from experience. This method works, and it does what everyone is asking. Yes, there are some downsides, but life's a game of compromise. Limit access in favor of quality conversation/debate.

Respectfully,
Tip DS

Also keep in mind that the ticalc.org server is physically located in Sweden. :)

--blue

O.K.! O.K.! Maybe my choice of words was bad. I shouldn't have said "USPS" when I'm talking to a global community. Well EXCUSE ME. (With the lack of inflection, I think that lost its Steve Martin and Dan Ackroid on Saturday Night Live effect.) I think I did cover my buttocks later when I said that international trustees could be utilized for overseas customers to apply to.

With the best solution yet,
Tip DS

At first, I agreed with SiberP that your idea was a bit... excessive. Why not just be patient and put up with the immature posts?

As the idea progresses, though, it doesn't seem half-bad. This isn't intended to be a 'normal' chat room, where people swear and tell bad jokes. It's *specifically* for programming (or should be). Your idea would take some effort on TI-Calc's part to implement, but I for one think it would keep these comment pages on-topic once and for all.

Well, not actually programming, just whatever's related to the topic, or even a question (like this whole bit) that has some relevence here.

-KAKE
IP ()

This would work, the problem is that it's slow and doubtful that Ticalc would want a snail mail box to keep it all in. An E-mail system would deter your run of the mill lamer however, just have the user submit a username, E-mail address, ETC and E-mail him the password. I mean, the Lamer would have to be _really_ dediciated to go out and make 100 hotmail accounts to just spam a message board and make accounts for each one, and by that time, it's a good bet that Hotmail wouldn't be too happy, and would ban him once they found out what's going on.

You could also make a waiting period for the account to become active. A day perhaps. That would slow this process down if someone actually tried to do this.

These things is not foolproof, but it does deter the majority of them, and thats what we want here.

I have a question, who started _this_ argument? I couldn't see any cussing or any real flames before people started complaining about cussing and flames . . . have I missed something? Either I'm really stupid, or someone is confused (or perhaps both). Please clear this up for me
-Stu

2 days ago, 5/8 of all messages contained the F word at least twice. They have been since deleted.

Ah, that makes a heck of a lot more sense now. Thanks :-)

27 out of 39 posts at the time contained a lot of wordy dirds. It wasn't a good thing.

--blue

Offense no, but are dyslexic you?
("Wordy dirds"?...)

It's OK; I'm tyslexic doo.

No, I just decide to say "wordy dirds" instead of "dirty words." Contrary to popular opinion I'm not /that/ stupid. :)

--blue

I personaly hate all the arguments on this page. One of them says we should use IP addresses 2 words Dinamic IP. Next having to mail in for username/password WTH (What the hell) are you thinking Tip DS they would be swamped also it would be a pain in the ass to EVERYONE except of course you your majesty. The next one banning free emails that would suck BIG time, I personally have to use Juno beacuse my brother has the Bellsouth address I would have to pay extra each month for my own address also they would never be able to find and ban all free emails. I think ticalc is doing the best they can under the circumstances.

P.S. Feel free to flame me just dont make fun of any spelling or grammer errors.

O.K. Help me out here... Please show me (in my infinite ignorance) how that message was productive.

>>I personaly hate all the arguments on this page.<<
-->Well, O.K. I suppose that everybody does need to know what you hate so they can cater to your every whim without upsetting you.

>>One of them says we should use IP addresses 2 words Dinamic IP. <<
-->Oops Boss. I think you forgot a period. Won't mention the spelling, since I'm just as bad. Another thing, that point has been covered, but the original poster DID have a productive contribution, even if it didn't pan out in the end.

>>Next having to mail in for username/password WTH (What the hell) are you thinking Tip DS they would be swamped also it would be a pain in the ass to EVERYONE except of course you your majesty.<<
-->Oops. Looks like some major gramatical work needed here. Won't cover them individually. Usually the initials (i.e. WTH) are used to shorten the typing. I think you should have lost the initials, or refrained from typing it out. You are adding to your work. I can see that you only partially read my posts, as my plan need not apply to EVERYONE. Also, the user writes in for a password, not their name. Next, mine is the voice of experience. I know, at 13 it's hard to listen to your elders, but try. Lastly, I'm not the king, so you don't have to call me majesty. A little respect is all that's needed, and that'll carry you a long way through life, youngster.

>>The next one banning free emails that would suck BIG time, I personally have to use Juno beacuse my brother has the Bellsouth address I would have to pay extra each month for my own address also they would never be able to find and ban all free emails<<
-->More grammar lessons needed. I doubt there is any concern for what mail provider you use, or why you use them. You are correct that finding all free email providers would be a huge task. You should look into NetZero. Free internet service and free SMTP and POP3 mail service.

>>I think ticalc is doing the best they can under the circumstances.<<
-->I'm sure they are doing their best, and it's good of you to acknowledge that. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't offer suggestions for improvement.

>>P.S. Feel free to flame me just dont make fun of any spelling or grammer errors<<
-->Just because you say it doesn't mean we have to obide by it. <G>

My addition to this topic is an educational note as follows: Being helpful can include pointing out mistakes in a given plan. However, picking plans apart for every possible flaw is counterproductive. If you need to do so, it would be helpful if you could offer a counter option. In other words, come up with a patch or a better plan yourself. If you can't offer anything better, shut your mouth. I think it is comments like yours that everyone is talking about filtering out. If you have anything constructive to offer, I will be more than happy to discuss or debate it with you. If not, I'll let this be it.

G'day,
Tip DS

1.) I'll respect your 'Post Script' and will not point out your numerous spelling and grammar errors.

2.) I think you pissed Tip DS off. (This is just a guess, though :))

3.) I agree with Tip DS that if you're going to slam someone's ideas, then offering alternative (thoroughly thought-out) ideas is the least you can do.

"That's all, folks!"

Maybe ticalc should just start two new mailing lists, one for revelant comments, and the other for flames. When someone posts a flame or retarded comment to the revelant list, they are kicked out off the revelant comments list, and infinately subcribed to the flames list as a lesson on how to behave.......but this is just a wild idea that should be at least taken into consideration by the coordinators........

Actually, Slashdot.org does something similar with their threshold system. The system threshold is set to default at 0. All lame/flame/ETC Quotes get delegated to a -1 Threshold, While better, more thoughtful quotes get a higher threshold based on how good they are at proving a point, on topic, ETC. It Filters the majority of Lame quotes but needs to be moderated by a site member.

BTW, this TIP DS Arguments/Flames are getting out of hand. The type of system he mentioned is extremely effective in keeping down lamers because only the dedicated of the dedicated ticalc users would go out and sign up for it. the problem is that in this situation, that type of high security is not necessary and most people would not bother with sending in the card to be signed up in the service, so the boards would only have a few arguments at best.

Again, we shouldn't be worried about having a 110% sanitized message board with Insanely High Military level security (Complete with Computer Virus Auto Implants and a worldwide Men in Black staff to hunt down lamers and shoot to kill on site) here. All that is needed is a simple login system that deters the majority of lamers coming to ticalc from nowhere and spamming the board with bull all day.

>>BTW, this TIP DS Arguments/Flames are getting out of hand. <<

-->What makes you say this, Mr. Fry? Is it because I try to offer a counter to objections? Do you think I am being mean to folks here? This is the way that debates work. I bring up an idea, someone tells me what's wrong with my idea and I either counter that point or try to offer a solution. Sorry if you're not a fan of my idea, that doesn't mean I'm "out of hand." My main thrust here is to be constructive. Do you believe that or do you want my posts banned from this site?

With respect,
Tip DS

Now that I think about it, I used the wrong sentence there. What I meant with that sentence was that the overall reponses to the mail issue that you brought up was causing a ton of flame responses and should be brought back to a constructive form of debate before the board gets plunged back into the toilet again.

The Mail idea is a very good way to keep dialin bbs/ISP servers/ETC very secure. It's just too secure for the needs of a message board.

Oh, I thought you were trying to start a fight. Darn. <JK> I hear what you are saying. I suppose every one's entitled to an opinion. I still think it would work for a serious forum, but if ticalc doesn't want to use it, that's fine too. Hey, when are you going to port some of those other fine games of yours for the 89?!

Bueno,
Tip DS