Re: TI-H: linux...

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Re: TI-H: linux...


>On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Grant Stockly wrote:
>> Sorry!  Thats not how it works!  All network traffic goes through a
>> 'router' (device used to route internet connections through one
>> connection/computer).  The 'router' receives the http data request, and if
>> the page is cached and hasn't timed out, it sends you that.  If it has been
>> longer than about a minute, it sends out the request, saves the file, then
>> sends it to you.
>
>Please do not insult me by explaining routers.  That's like trying to
>explain to you what a calculator does.
>
>And no, routers do not receive http data requests.  They receive IP
>packets.

A router receives the packets, and when proxied, takes them apart.  I was
correct in that I didn't know you knew about routers so I didn't get
technical...

>Your definition of 'router' is correct...your usage is wrong.  What your
>explaining is an http caching proxy, not a router.  Go do some research
>before you blow off way-too-many-words and you'll figure it all out in
>time.

No.  I was explaining a router+proxy server.  VERY common with linux.  At
least debian and mk.

>> You have no choice but to use AOL's router.  Run trace route on your linux
>> machine.  You seem to say you know alot about them.  :P
>
>Of course.  Using routers does not imply slow route times or caching http.

Nope, but it does mean you won't alaways get up to date information.

>> >You can connect to AOL with the AOL client, start one of the many ftp
>> >servers for windows, and ftp into your AOL client.  You can also ping it
>> >and do all that wonderful stuff.
>>
>> Yes!  and all taht junk is routed to a backbone where there are proxy
>>servers!
>
>No!  Well, yes, but the proxy servers have noting to do with it! (unless
>you're not using AOL3/4 and/or are using the integrated browser)  Routing
>does not imply proxies.

Your connection goes through a computer(s) that route and proxy your data.
You knew what I meant.

>> >If you connect to AOL and use Netscape, you are NOT using the proxy.
>>
>> Yes you are.
>
>NO, you're not.

Then access gussie.alaska.net and if I see your true IP and not the proxy,
you are right.  :)  But I won't see your true IP.

>> No one said censored.  PROXY means the page has been stored on AOLs server
>> to make internet seem faster, when it isn't.

Someone said its not censored.  I said it isn't too.  I know exactly what a
proxy is becasue I operate one for my sister/brother/mom.

>Normally, when people are talking proxies, they mean censoreship.  And
>"PROXY" does not necessarily mean that it makes it seem faster.  Your
>average proxy server does no caching.  You need to set up additional
>software to do that (on unix-based platforms, that would normally be
>squid).

AOL caches pages.  I know what a proxy is and what they do.

>> >You get logged as being from your dynamic
>> >IP.
>>
>> The router assigns you that dynamic IP.  You could have the router assign
>> you the same IP every time you log on, but AOL won't let you do that.
>
>No, the router does not assign you that IP.  The DHCP server does.

And the DHCP server is usually part of the router!

>> >It's no different than dialing into your average PPP-based ISP and
>> >doing whatever.  You get your own IP, but it's dynamic.
>>
>> Ever used linux?  Ever used a proxy server?  Do you know what you are
>> talking about?
>
>Yes, Yes, Usually.  I've used linux for over 5 years now.  I've set up
>proxy servers as well as caching proxies and translational routers
>(NAT/masq).  When you know what you're talking about, let me know and we
>can have a serious discussion instead of childing flamefests.

Okay.  Here I am.  AOL proxies stuff.  Thats the fact.

>> IPs are a different topic.  A 500 page book doesn't talk about all there is
>> to know about IPs.  The IP has NOTHING to do with the proxy server.
>
>IP has to do with everything.  Without IP, you can't have TCP.  WIthout
>TCP, you can't have HTTP or SMTP.  Without SMTP, I couldn't be sending you
>this message.  Oh, and I have not read any "500 page book"s.

IP doesn't have to do with the fact AOL uses proxies, and you also know
what I meant.

>> Factually, you have no idea if you are being proxied unless you run trace
>> route!
>
>Actually, traceroute/tracert only tells you the IP-level routers you pass
>through.  If you're passing through a proxy (of which most don't proxy
>ICMP) traceroute will stop immediatly after your local route (you do know
>what /sbin/route does, right?)

Yes.  But AOL's servers let all through.  Thats how AOL people have the
best warez access...  Becasue they can get everything thats external to AOL.

>> Some ISPs give you the option of using a proxy (they give you an IP
>> to enter into netscape) but ANY ISP can force you to use a proxy whether
>> you like it, know it, want it, or not.  Basically, if you are accessing any
>> www page, you are getting it through a transparent proxy server.
>
>Transparent proxies are a little different than normal proxies, and are a
>little more in-depth (ie, this is REALLY not a good place to discuss it).

I know.  :)

>And no, an ISP cannot _FORCE_ you to use a proxy.  If you have to
>configure netscape (and everyone one of your inet apps).  If they tell you
>you ahve to do that to your apps, you can very easily cancel your account
>and move on to another provider.

Your ISP can proxy everything without you knowing.  No netscape setup or
anything.

>Grant, if you'd like to contiune insulting the intelligence of everyone
>on this list (including you and myself), let's take it off the list.  Or
>just stop.

Why don't you just admit that AOL proxies stuff to minimize www traffic?
Thats the fact.  I'm not trying to insult anyone.
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