Re: TI-H: linux...

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Re: TI-H: linux...


On Wed, 16 Sep 1998, Grant Stockly wrote:
> Sorry!  Thats not how it works!  All network traffic goes through a
> 'router' (device used to route internet connections through one
> connection/computer).  The 'router' receives the http data request, and if
> the page is cached and hasn't timed out, it sends you that.  If it has been
> longer than about a minute, it sends out the request, saves the file, then
> sends it to you.

Please do not insult me by explaining routers.  That's like trying to
explain to you what a calculator does.

And no, routers do not receive http data requests.  They receive IP
packets.  

Your definition of 'router' is correct...your usage is wrong.  What your
explaining is an http caching proxy, not a router.  Go do some research
before you blow off way-too-many-words and you'll figure it all out in
time.
 
> You have no choice but to use AOL's router.  Run trace route on your linux
> machine.  You seem to say you know alot about them.  :P

Of course.  Using routers does not imply slow route times or caching http. 

> >You can connect to AOL with the AOL client, start one of the many ftp
> >servers for windows, and ftp into your AOL client.  You can also ping it
> >and do all that wonderful stuff.
> 
> Yes!  and all taht junk is routed to a backbone where there are proxy servers!

No!  Well, yes, but the proxy servers have noting to do with it! (unless
you're not using AOL3/4 and/or are using the integrated browser)  Routing
does not imply proxies.  

> >If you connect to AOL and use Netscape, you are NOT using the proxy.
> 
> Yes you are.

NO, you're not.  

> >You
> >are not censored from anything.
> 
> No one said censored.  PROXY means the page has been stored on AOLs server
> to make internet seem faster, when it isn't.

Normally, when people are talking proxies, they mean censoreship.  And
"PROXY" does not necessarily mean that it makes it seem faster.  Your
average proxy server does no caching.  You need to set up additional
software to do that (on unix-based platforms, that would normally be
squid).

> >You get logged as being from your dynamic
> >IP.
> 
> The router assigns you that dynamic IP.  You could have the router assign
> you the same IP every time you log on, but AOL won't let you do that.

No, the router does not assign you that IP.  The DHCP server does.  

> >It's no different than dialing into your average PPP-based ISP and
> >doing whatever.  You get your own IP, but it's dynamic.
> 
> Ever used linux?  Ever used a proxy server?  Do you know what you are
> talking about?

Yes, Yes, Usually.  I've used linux for over 5 years now.  I've set up
proxy servers as well as caching proxies and translational routers
(NAT/masq).  When you know what you're talking about, let me know and we
can have a serious discussion instead of childing flamefests.

> IPs are a different topic.  A 500 page book doesn't talk about all there is
> to know about IPs.  The IP has NOTHING to do with the proxy server.

IP has to do with everything.  Without IP, you can't have TCP.  WIthout
TCP, you can't have HTTP or SMTP.  Without SMTP, I couldn't be sending you
this message.  Oh, and I have not read any "500 page book"s. 

> Factually, you have no idea if you are being proxied unless you run trace
> route!  

Actually, traceroute/tracert only tells you the IP-level routers you pass
through.  If you're passing through a proxy (of which most don't proxy
ICMP) traceroute will stop immediatly after your local route (you do know
what /sbin/route does, right?)

> Some ISPs give you the option of using a proxy (they give you an IP
> to enter into netscape) but ANY ISP can force you to use a proxy whether
> you like it, know it, want it, or not.  Basically, if you are accessing any
> www page, you are getting it through a transparent proxy server.

Transparent proxies are a little different than normal proxies, and are a
little more in-depth (ie, this is REALLY not a good place to discuss it).

And no, an ISP cannot _FORCE_ you to use a proxy.  If you have to
configure netscape (and everyone one of your inet apps).  If they tell you
you ahve to do that to your apps, you can very easily cancel your account
and move on to another provider.

Grant, if you'd like to contiune insulting the intelligence of everyone
on this list (including you and myself), let's take it off the list.  Or
just stop.

af

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Adam Fritzler                           |
  afritz@delphid.ml.org                 | Animals who are not penguins can   
    afritz@iname.com                    |    can only wish they were.
      http://delphid.ml.org/~afritz/    |        -- Chicago Reader 
        http://www.pst.com/             |               15 Oct 1982
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