RE: A85: new 85 hardware...

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RE: A85: new 85 hardware...


I have heard an 8 bit sound card and loved it before.  It was the only 
thing I had then...(For sound)

I think people want to make all the complex hardware, because its a 
challenge to get it working on a claculator.  Some people like extremely 
difficult tasks, so quit raining on their parade.

----------
From: 	Jason Blakeley[SMTP:phantomlogic@hotmail.com]
Sent: 	Friday, September 04, 1998 8:00 AM
To: 	assembly-85@lists.ticalc.org
Subject: 	Re: A85: new 85 hardware...




>From: "Kaus" <kaus@cybrzn.com>
>To: <assembly-85@lists.ticalc.org>
>Subject: Re: A85: new 85 hardware...
>Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1998 21:48:11 -0500
>Reply-To: assembly-85@lists.ticalc.org
>
>
>The Z80 will never be maxed out. only your limited thinking.  Do you
>program?  I agree with Humberto (although not on all things he has said
>lately:Rigel is not the God-Shell.  Currently one doesnt exist.)  in
that
>Daedalus is a prime example.  But even that did not max out the z80.
it was
>made on a computer (yes.  A computer) that was limited to only 27K of
RAM
>available, is clocked to a 2Mhz rate (the proc is rated for 6Mhz, but
TI
>decided, for unknown reasons, perhaps reliablitty, to slow it down.)
and
>has a 128x64 b/w screen.  This is the not the limit of the hardware
extent
>of the z80 processor!!!  Daedalus may have maxed out the TI-85, but
>definelty not the Z80.  Know this:The only limits imposed on the Z80
and any
>computer built using it is a 20Mhz clock,  and an 8bit instruction set.
>Memory can be, and is in many cases, paged.  As can be ROM.  Input can
be
>interfaced to ports.  Including a full 102keyboard, mouse, or joystick.
>Output can be done on a SVGA screen, if we just interfaced the card to
the
>bus properly.  the IO ports can be paged. Or, RAM space can be used for
>extra IO space. You get the idea.  The TI-85 has been (almsot) maxed
out by
>one game.  One game.  No other ones are even close.  None. Period.
>
>--Jonathan Kaus
>IRC: Jedsmeny
>ICQ: 15873088
>AIM: Jedsmeny
>email: kaus@cybrzn.com
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Humberto Yeverino <humberto@engr.csufresno.edu>
>To: assembly-85@lists.ticalc.org <assembly-85@lists.ticalc.org>
>Date: Thursday, September 03, 1998 12:30 PM
>Subject: Re: A85: new 85 hardware...
>
>
>>
>>On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Jason Blakeley wrote:
>>> My question is how much potential do you think the z80 has? In the
age
>>> of 64-bit and 128-bit Pentium processors that clock at 400mHz, how
many
>>> z80 programmers would ever be satisfied with with the quality of
>>> programs they could write for an 8-bit, 6mHz calc? I always thought
that
>>> the reason people programmed calcs in the first place was because it
was
>>> open territory. It wasn't dominated by DOS, Windows, or Unix. It
seemed
>>> kind of like when the first 8088 or 8086's PC's were made. There was
no
>>> one making software for it at first. But even PC companies and users
>>> moved on to faster processors because they realized that there was
only
>>> so much they could do with a 8086. Their larger, more complicated,
and
>>> more entertaining programs required more processing power and more
>>> memory to run them. I just think its gotten to the point where we've
>>> maxxed out the calc and we're searching for something to do with it
>>> because nothing more powerful has come out.
>>
>>But when I look at the software situation I see everyone using a shell
>>with an inferior relocator that wastes space.  Instead of writting or
just
>>using the better relocator that's already been written the solution is
>>make an expander for more memory.
>>The way I see it most programmers don't even use what's already there,
or
>>just don't use it effectively.  Maybe it's because everyone thinks
it's
>>easier to add more memory than to write programs that use less.
>>
>>The only game that, in my opinion, maxed ot the z80 was Daedulus, and
the
>>games I've seen lately don't even come close to it's complexity.
>>
>>-Humberto Yeverino Jr.
>>
>>"I kick ass for the Lord."
>>
>>***********************************************************
>>Home Page:
>>  http://www.engr.csufresno.edu/~humberto/Home.html
>>
>>Ti Page:
>>  http://www.engr.csufresno.edu/~humberto/tex.html
>>
>>z80 Source Page:
>>  http://www.engr.csufresno.edu/~humberto/z80source.html
>>
>>Official Tyrant Home Page:
>>  http://www.engr.csufresno.edu/~humberto/tyrant.html
>>
>>E-mail:
>>  humberto@engr.csufresno.edu
>>***********************************************************
>>
>
>


First, yes I program, otherwise I wouldn't be on this list. Second, I
wasn't just talking about games maxing out the calc, I meant software in
general. Third, the 85 doesn't have the bandwidth to accomodate all the
data you're talking about sending through it. I know it can output to a
monitor or projector, and it could interface with a keyboard, mouse, or
joystick, but who would want to do that in the first place? Would you
carry a keyboard, mouse, joystick, and speakers around with you to hook
up to a calculator!? I wouldn't. And lastly, you're taking my comments
out of context. I like 85s. I think their neat little suckers to mess
around with and to build fundamental programming skills, but people are
starting to try and put serious, complicated apps and hardware on it
that its too slow and too puny to handle. Sure, it would be neat to get
sound working (in whatever limited fashion) on the 85, and I'd like to
see it work just to see it work, but you couldn't do anything serious or
really fun with it. And since it has no expansion slots, the only way to
interface hardware to it is through the port (with the possible
exception of a monitor connection). The port's transfer rate isn't that
spiffy to begin with. It might be able to handle sound, but I seriously
doubt you could do much with the calc while playing sounds because all
the memory would be used up storing the sound file and most, if not all,
of the bandwidth on the calc would be used just sending the data through
the port, unless it was short sounds like beeps and simple melodies. Who
on this list has ever heard an 8-bit sound card and loved what they
heard?

I'm not saying ditch the 85. I'm saying that for sound, peripheral
interfacing, and sophisticated software, it would be better to have a
faster, easily expanded calc/comp with more storage space, and more
bandwidth. How much is all this work worth in the end? Sure it's fun to
try, but wouldn't it be more fun to try on a platform that welcomed such
efforts?



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