In a message dated 98-03-22 22:35:15 EST, you write: << But the 16F84 can be reprogrammed in 20 seconds, and the 16C84 in 2 or 3 hours... >> Thats what I am trying get at the NEWER PIC16C84 are EEPROM so they are same except for the metioned diffrences before. However the 16F's are cheaper so the 16F's will eventally replace the 16C84