In a message dated 1/31/2000 2:25:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, rabelerb@pilot.msu.edu writes: << Umm.. you know, that contraption with the little beads in it that the ancient Romans or Greeks used to count. :) >> Dont know about the greeks, but the romans used that messed up roman numeral system. The arabs and turks used the abacus and a few other such things. Jeff Barrett